Any Idea What Caused This?

A veritable plethora of comedians today.........................LOL

Actually what "IS" funny is the amount of people that don't read the front of the reloading manuals where all this information is.

"All the information in the world is written in books and all you have to do is read".
Attila the Hun

(or was it sunray)

:sok2
 
Below, from the Sierra reloading manual, Hornady and Redding.
(for slicknova and ted_dent to read and grasp) "When all else fails read the manual".

Gee, bigedp51, I guess you're right. Let's read the manuals.

From Lee: http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/Pistol3.pdf
"FULL LENGTH SIZER
Screw the full length sizer in until it touches the shellholder and tighten the lock ring finger tight"

From RCBS: http://www.rcbs.com/guide/step_by_step_reloading.aspx#
"Step 5 - Install the Sizer Die
Thread the sizer die into the press until the die touches the shell holder....If you're using a carbide sizer die, make slight contact with the bottom of the die and the shell holder.

From Hornady: http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/manuals-current/metalic-reloading/Hornady full length dies.pdf
To adjust the full-length size die, follow these steps:
1. Raise the press ram to highest position without camming over.
2. Thread the full-length die into the press until the base touches the shell holder head.
3. Tighten the lock ring against the press and tighten the set screw with the allen wrench.

From CH Tool and Die: http://www.ch4d.com/Media/files/manuals/ds.pdf
Sizing Die Adjustment
Type 1 and 3 die sets: Adjusting the FL sizer to contact the shell holder will set the cartridge headspace to the specified dimension. This is the recommended method if the ammunition is to be used in more than one firearm.

From Lyman: http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/dies/pdf/dieInstructions.pdf
Resizing and Decapping (con’t)
Loosen the set screw in the die lock ring and back it off to give you room to screw the die into the press.
Lower the press handle until the shellholder is at its highest point.
Turn the die into the press until its bottom edge makes firm contact with the shellholder. Exception: tungsten-carbide size dies (refer to as “T/C dies” from here on) for straight-wall pistol cases require a different setup. See special instructions below.
Adjusting the T/C die: With the shellholder at its highest pint, turn your T/C die into the press until the dies’ bottom edge is just the thickness of a matchbook cover away form the shellholder. Tighten the die lock ring and the set screw.

Of course these companies don't know anything about adjusting sizing dies whereas Sierra has all kinds of experience because of the large number of reloading dies they produce....oh, wait...

(for bigedp51 to read and grasp) "When all else fails read the manual".
 
Actually ted_dent, when all else fails use some common sense.

If you adjust the rifle dies as per your instructions above you will bump the shoulder of the case too far and over resize the case and shorten it life.

If you adjust a carbide pistol die as described above and the carbide ring makes the case smaller in diameter than the base of the case just above the rim you have over resized the case.

Or maybe your just a Coke fan.


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We can have a posting instant replay and see if your call is correct ted_dent.

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But as long as your not a blind man the instant replay should settle the dispute.

We live in a plus and minus world and adjustments sometimes have to be made.

And when all else fails use some common sense.
f:P:2:
 
ted_dent..........I learned this many years ago as well, when using carbides, I only size enough to be sure the case drops back in the chamber and holds the bullet firmly. Different pressure loads require different amounts of resizing and common sense tells us this is of course correct. When using light loads of Unique in the 44 case all one really needs is to hold the bullet as the brass doesn't expand back towards the head at all. This didn't come from any manual in my case it just came from experience and not liking the way the cases looked after full length sizing with the carbide. So I applied the same process of "neck sizing" I had learned from rifle loading and voila, no more misshapen pistol cases. I just figured why work the snot out of the brass when I don't need to.....common sense.
 
Measure the base of the case just above the rim, now measure just above where the carbide ring stopped. If the upper measurement is smaller than the base diameter you are over sizing the brass when using carbide pistol dies. In the photos I can "SEE" the case was over resized and the case is smaller in diameter where the carbide ring stopped.

Using a pistol case gauge helps when making die adjustments, the gauge diameter is minimum SAAMI chamber diameter. A carbide die should be adjusted so the case fully enters the case gauge without binding. Any more downward adjustment will over work the brass, and if you notice the case cracked and failed just above where the carbide ring stopped. The brass was over compressed and caused a hairline fracture where the brass is the hardest in the base. Meaning the brass cracked from being squeezed too much.

Below, from the Sierra reloading manual, Hornady and Redding.
(for slicknova and ted_dent to read and grasp) "When all else fails read the manual".


Carbide Sizers

Carbide sizing dies have become tremendously popular in the past ten to fifteen years, and for good reason. As we have already seen, carbide dies do away with the necessity of lubricating cases prior to the resizing process. They do require some attention to how they are set up, to avoid damage to the die, and obtain best results. The often repeated advice to screw the die body down until it contacts the shell holder, will give poor results with a carbide die and may even result in cracking the carbide insert. NEVER adjust the die body down so far that it will contact the shell holder. Carbide dies for straight-wall cases are not designed to full-length resize, and are frequently adjusted to give what amounts to excessive resizing. This often results in an undesirable bulge slightly above the extractor groove. Often called the “Coke bottle” effect, this will cause the brass to be worked excessively and can lead to reduced case life. The only portion of the case that needs to be resized is the area that is expanded by firing. For use in revolvers especially, the case need only be sized enough to allow the case to chamber freely again. Often, this may involve sizing only half the length of the case body and is in effect, neck sizing. If this is enough to allow the case to be chambered easily, then the die is adjusted down far enough.

This will avoid overworking the brass, and will eliminate the so-called Coke-bottle effect.


Hornady Die FAQ

Question: My Titanium Carbide Resizing Die is leaving a ring on the bottom of my case, is there something wrong with my Die?

Answer: The size of the carbide ring inside a Titanium Carbide Sizing Die must be small enough to allow the case to accept a bullet with adequate neck tension. Thus, the bottom of a case may be sized a little more than it has to be. Usually, backing the Die away from the Shellholder to size approximately ½ of the case or enough of the case to hold the bullet will rectify the problem.


Dual Ring Carbide Sizing Dies

Redding has solved the problem that has plagued ordinary carbide dies since their invention. The little ring in a standard carbide die had to do double duty. It sized the top of the case to properly hold the bullet but then continued to size the whole body of the case as well. Unfortunately, these two areas need to be sized at different diameters, so carbide dies of the past have always been a compromise.

Redding's solution to this problem is a unique (patent pending) design, incorporating two carbide rings within one sizing die. The upper ring is positioned to size only the bullet retention portion of the case while the other is located to properly size the case body without overworking the brass. Sized cases will not only look and function better but brass life will increase.


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Thank you. learned something today.
 
Have we found what make of brass?
I'm new to reloading but I've been told with light loads like this .44 brass should last at least 10 times.
At least that's what I was hoping for.


I load 98% of my pistol ammo at the medium to medium mild level. Brass life seems to be indefinite, or until lost in the weeds, whichever occurs first.
 
If they were "NEVER" primed and loaded what made them go bang????????? :slap:

(and how did the inside of the rim get so dirty?) :nest:

[/QUOTE]

OK I'll clarify, they were brand new before I loaded them :nest: back at you :D TC
 
Common sense is not common.

Why do you continue to aggravate ted_dent? Let the poor fella full size all his brass. So what if they are overworked, as long as he's happy following the manual that's all that count. ;)
Actually ted_dent, when all else fails use some common sense.

If you adjust the rifle dies as per your instructions above you will bump the shoulder of the case too far and over resize the case and shorten it life.

If you adjust a carbide pistol die as described above and the carbide ring makes the case smaller in diameter than the base of the case just above the rim you have over resized the case.

Or maybe your just a Coke fan.
...
 
Maybe take some time reading the Hatcher's Notebook.... the Chapter VIII covers "The Strenght Of Military Rifles" which end with "Some Reasons for Cartridge Failure"....
 
At first I thought these feelings of annoyance came from the advancement of an asinine theory about carbide dies overworking cases. Then I realized that I was actually annoyed at the people who so willingly fell for this claptrap. This guy should have been laughed out of the forum. Instead he's being thanked for spreading the light.

The vast VAST majority of people loading straight wall cases use carbide dies and full length resize. People using this technique routinely load and shoot their cases until the headstamps are almost unreadable. The thin case mouth is typically expanded outwards to a pronounced cone by the expanding die, then rolled in to be straight or even heavily crimped by the seating die, imparting significant cold work. Even with this harsh treatment cases will almost always last a dozen loadings, often several times that. Cold work takes a long time to accumulate to the degree that it could cause a failure.

The failed casings in this thread were brand new. They went through the die once to make sure they were round. A die would have to reduce the case diameter by something like 40% to impart enough cold work to embrittle 70/30 brass in a single pass. This clearly did not happen here.

This was probably bad brass. It may also be a bad chamber in the gun, we don't have enough info to rule that out. But the carbide die oversizing theory is hooey. Shame on anyone who was fooled by it for even an instant.
 
I have loaded and shot a few rounds in 44 magnum, using the 429421 mold, as well as the same type bullet with a gas check. I shot big pistol silhouette for some years and during that time I owned and shot five different 44 mag revolvers. I used carbide dies and like the vast, vast majority, I did what RCBS stated should be done and turned the die down until it touched the shell holder. For silhouette shooting these had to be loaded full tilt, to be satisfactory at 200 metres.
My cases gave long life and invariably they wore out by getting a lengthwise crack down from the mouth. Of those thousands of reloads, I never had a single case that cracked, or failed, in any other location than at the mouth, from the constant expanding and crimping.
I also have, or had, two different Marlin 44 magnum rifles. They got the same type of reloaded ammunition, except one rifle used a lot of light loaded cartridges. I taught two grand sons to shoot rifle, using the Marlin rifle I still have. It was loaded very light for seven and eight year olds, but by the time they turned to teens, the 44 was loaded right to the tilt.
Through all of that the reloading record still stood. Not a single case ever failed any place except a crack down from the mouth, just like they were supposed to.
 
At first I thought these feelings of annoyance came from the advancement of an asinine theory about carbide dies overworking cases. Then I realized that I was actually annoyed at the people who so willingly fell for this claptrap. This guy should have been laughed out of the forum. Instead he's being thanked for spreading the light.

The vast VAST majority of people loading straight wall cases use carbide dies and full length resize. People using this technique routinely load and shoot their cases until the headstamps are almost unreadable. The thin case mouth is typically expanded outwards to a pronounced cone by the expanding die, then rolled in to be straight or even heavily crimped by the seating die, imparting significant cold work. Even with this harsh treatment cases will almost always last a dozen loadings, often several times that. Cold work takes a long time to accumulate to the degree that it could cause a failure.

The failed casings in this thread were brand new. They went through the die once to make sure they were round. A die would have to reduce the case diameter by something like 40% to impart enough cold work to embrittle 70/30 brass in a single pass. This clearly did not happen here.

This was probably bad brass. It may also be a bad chamber in the gun, we don't have enough info to rule that out. But the carbide die oversizing theory is hooey. Shame on anyone who was fooled by it for even an instant.

Despite being shamed as I believed this theory at first upon reflection I tend to agree that it is bad brass. I've loaded thousands of 45, 40, 38/357 and 9mm, mostly range brass and this is the first time I've ever seen a crack in this location. I suppose it is possible that it is a bad chamber but I still think if it was this would occur much more often. TC
 
At first I thought these feelings of annoyance came from the advancement of an asinine theory about carbide dies overworking cases. Then I realized that I was actually annoyed at the people who so willingly fell for this claptrap. This guy should have been laughed out of the forum. Instead he's being thanked for spreading the light.

The vast VAST majority of people loading straight wall cases use carbide dies and full length resize. People using this technique routinely load and shoot their cases until the headstamps are almost unreadable. The thin case mouth is typically expanded outwards to a pronounced cone by the expanding die, then rolled in to be straight or even heavily crimped by the seating die, imparting significant cold work. Even with this harsh treatment cases will almost always last a dozen loadings, often several times that. Cold work takes a long time to accumulate to the degree that it could cause a failure.

The failed casings in this thread were brand new. They went through the die once to make sure they were round. A die would have to reduce the case diameter by something like 40% to impart enough cold work to embrittle 70/30 brass in a single pass. This clearly did not happen here.

This was probably bad brass. It may also be a bad chamber in the gun, we don't have enough info to rule that out. But the carbide die oversizing theory is hooey. Shame on anyone who was fooled by it for even an instant.

Talk about being thick headed, in post #20 I listed remarks from the Sierra manual, Hornady and Redding and you call this expert advice a bunch of hooey. These quotes were not my words and you get upset because I posted them and someone thank me for posting the information. Your reaction is very childish and shows your immaturity, if your looking for stardom you should give up reloading and try being a comic and maybe someone will think your funny.
 
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