Wouldn't this just make it look like the stock faux suppressed length again....?
See post 200
Any word on development of a short GSG-16 barrel?
- Thread starter SIG FAN
- Start date
See post 200
- Location
- Southern Ontario
So by your thinking, it wouldn't matter if the barrel was just 1"? You believe both the bullet and the bolt would both act exactly the same as on a 20" barrel?
What actually happens is that the bullet acts as a temporary "plug" whilst travelling down the barrel.
It has flown out of the barrel by the time the powder-casing has pushed the bolt back enough to reverse out of the firing chamber.
During the time the bullet is racing down the barrel, it is being pushed by the pressurized gases.
Those gasses act like a spring, a spring pushing against the the bullet, but also pushing the bolt backwards too, in an equal and opposite manner, as dictated by Newton's laws of physics. ("every action has an equal and opposite reaction")
Since the block is much heavier, and has it's own recoil springs behind it too, it takes longer to recoil backwards, giving the bullet enough time to clear the barrel, before unplugging the barrel.
So imagine if the bullet never left and the barrel stayed plugged? Then you'd get a face full of hot gasses at the ejector port. The bullet has to leave, it has to unplug the barrel, but not too soon, else the heavy bolt & recoil springs doesn't get pushed backwards for long enough, and it won't cycle reliably.
One might ask, "why not make the bolt & recoil springs lighter then?"
Well the recoil springs are responsible for stripping the next round from your magazine.
And I guess the block being heavy helps you feel less recoil sharpness, and it's momentum gives the bullet enough time to leave the barrel, before you get a faceful of hot gasses.
Other anecdotes to explain:
1) put a bunch of bullets in a campfire. They explode, but aren't really dangerous, the bullet, nor casing, do not fly outwards at deadly velocity. They need the barrel to focus, or funnel the explosion. Don't believe me? Then:
2) Inflate a balloon. Then either pop it with a pin. Or, let it go and watch the balloon fly around. The difference is the funnelling of the gases through a nozzle (i.e. barrel), vs. just having it explode in mid air and going nowhere (no barrel, or 1" barrel).
3) same with a space rocket. It can explode suddenly in all directions on the launch pad. Or, if the hot gases are funnelled in one direction, the rocket/bullet takes off, yay! But the bullet needs something to "push" against, which is the bolt and recoil springs. And it needs Time too, nothing happens instantly.
P.S. don't try 1) at home! This was actually a story told by our PAL instructor, of something he had tried with friends. And he might have put them in a flaming garbage drum instead of an open campfire...
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The story was great to take up time during pal class.
First off, .22lr is low pressure round.
Second of all, gas lose pressure dramtically as it cools down, and in a blow back barrel they lose pressure rather quickly.
Gas port pressure on an AR carbine is 25k psi, on a midlength is 15K. A mere 2.7 inch difference and it lost 10k.
My math stands correct ish. Given the rate of loss, at 5.8 inches it would dissipate most of it gas pressure
To put the math perspective in your head, a .22 has a chamber pressure of 22K on a high velocity load.
First off, .22lr is low pressure round.
Second of all, gas lose pressure dramtically as it cools down, and in a blow back barrel they lose pressure rather quickly.
Gas port pressure on an AR carbine is 25k psi, on a midlength is 15K. A mere 2.7 inch difference and it lost 10k.
My math stands correct ish. Given the rate of loss, at 5.8 inches it would dissipate most of it gas pressure
To put the math perspective in your head, a .22 has a chamber pressure of 22K on a high velocity load.
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- Location
- Southern Ontario
No need to look at AR rounds when we have the actual 22LR graph that I had originally posted:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/2011graphs+/22ME.html
At the 5.8" that you arbitrarily selected, the Velocitor has around 125lb-ft energy.
Versus about 160lb-ft at 16" barrel length.
That could be the difference between reliably cycling or not. Especially after the gun gets dirty, or the lube wears away...
Of course this depends if "my" theory is applicable, about "bullet energy equals bolt recoil energy".
Which should be pretty sound, if we ignore the frictional losses of the bullet rubbing and spinning during it's travel down the barrel's rifle grooves.
P.S. Velocitor is hyper velocity, if we started off with a weaker round, (but still "high velocity") like the CCI MiniMag, then we'd drop from 130lb-ft @ 16" to around 108lb-ft @ 5.8".
Where 108lb-ft is probably near the energy of "Standard" ammo, which the GSG-16 is not recommended for, I believe I've read somewhere...
P.P.S. no matter if we had AR pressures, things still take TIME to be moved. A rocket has a lot of pressure too, but it has to fire for several minutes to get moved. The longer the barrel, the longer distance the bullet has to travel, and the longer time that the pressure inside the barrel is "plugged". After it unplugs, then pressure disappears rapidly, and the force pushing the bolt back also disappears.
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- Location
- Nova Scotia
Would need like a 13" or 14" barrel for a reserve can to work. The 9" will just stick out an inch or so after the front sight. And would look about the same, as the regular.
You may sound smart, but when you asked if silencers are legal. You lost any followers.
I ran CCI mini mags, CCI Standard, CCI Subsonic HP, and 2 other HV ammo. CCI Quiets did exit the barrel. So I dunno where you saw, not recommended.
I only asked what chamber they are because LW are normally match barrels, not many will want to run match ammo. I had a Dlask 8" 10/22 barrel with the sporter chamber, and cycled fine.
- Location
- Southern Ontario
I was literally reading people drooling and wetting their panties over this "black 9" barrel deal, and I didn't see the benefits besides having a threaded barrel end. So I asked what ppl planned to thread onto the end, and intimated that silencers were NOT legal in Canada. I suspected they were not legal, but, given the gun laws are convoluted "because Canada", plus I consume a lot of USA gun reviews which mostly enjoy legal silencers, I thought I'd ask for clarification.
Please don't gatekeep on what questions can or cannot be asked.
As for HV ammo, it's apparently recommended by the manufacturer, and here's a quote from a review:
Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/09/american-tactical-gsg-16-22lr-video-review/#ixzz66JIkqmml
Features:
.22LR (High Velocity recommended, 1260fps recommended)
Despite the manufacturers warning on sticking with mid-weight, high-velocity rounds we found that when clean and lubricated the GSG-16 would run most ammunition.
--
Endquote from ammoland.com
So as they, and myself suggested, if it's lubed and clean it can cycle with lower power ammo.
Also, even the lowest power ammo will have the "bullet leave the barrel".
It is whether there was enough energy to cycle the bolt back enough, to strip the next round from your magazine.
Did yours cycle the next round of CCI Quiet, or did it just have a single "bullet leave barrel"?
Am I allowed to ask that, or am I gonna lose you as a follower?
(why is everyone so snarky on this thread, geez?!)
My $.02 ? Most blowback .22s can be tuned to cycle all but the lightest loads. Cleaned and well lubricated are a huge factor ,true, but so is bolt weight, polishing and spring poundage. All of these can be fine tuned by an experienced gunsmith.
- Location
- Southern Ontario
I agree. This GSG-16 experiences some diverse usage situations, like the 110 round drum potentially offering uneven round-stripping forces. Even the 22rd stick mag can fit 24 if you squeeze them, but they recommend only 22, probably coz it's gets pretty tight to cycle the first 2 of 24.
To go further with the topic, a shortened barrel could even cause the stick mag to be less reliable even at only 22 rnds. Folks might need to only load up to 20rnds for example.
Why? Because it's not just the recoil springs' force that strips the next round, it could be "rebound" too, where the bolt "bounces" off the backstop, on it's way forward to strip next round.
To go even further, a heavy bolt not only makes the bolt heavier, it requires a more robust rest-of-gun too, since the heavy bolt will be bouncing back and forth.
Even further, the potential AUTOMATIC rate of fire would probably be faster, with a lighter bolt.
Not relevant with a semi-auto GSG16, but ya, there's a lot of engineering in the guns, and we can't just lop off barrels, run unrecommended ammo etc. and go, "it'll work, no numbers allowed, numbers not fun!"
Dlask and GSG would be the ones suffering the phone calls and bad reviews, from the end users who don't really understand what goes into designing their toys.
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- Location
- Southern Ontario
[/QUOTE] (why is everyone so snarky on this thread, geez?!) [/QUOTE]
A theory about this---I'm new to this community, so I'm not used to what seems like extra hostility and anti intellectualism compared to other forums. So theory: could it be that gun owners are suffering from lead poisoning?
Symptoms include:
slowed body growth
reduced IQ
loss of appetite and weight loss
constipation and mild abdominal pain
irritability
general fatigue
blue tinge around the gums
anemia
hearing loss and reduction in other senses
neurological weakness, in the later stages
I guess nobody will believe me when I say, "no snark", but I truly wonder lead exposure from guns. Look at the gun happy USA, don't they seem to exhibit the above symptoms more than Canadians? (sans "weight loss", haha, snark!!)
[/QUOTE]A theory about this---I'm new to this community, so I'm not used to what seems like extra hostility and anti intellectualism compared to other forums. So theory: could it be that gun owners are suffering from lead poisoning?
Symptoms include:
slowed body growth
reduced IQ
loss of appetite and weight loss
constipation and mild abdominal pain
irritability
general fatigue
blue tinge around the gums
anemia
hearing loss and reduction in other senses
neurological weakness, in the later stages
I guess nobody will believe me when I say, "no snark", but I truly wonder lead exposure from guns. Look at the gun happy USA, don't they seem to exhibit the above symptoms more than Canadians? (sans "weight loss", haha, snark!!)
(why is everyone so snarky on this thread, geez?!)
A theory about this---I'm new to this community, so I'm not used to what seems like extra hostility and anti intellectualism compared to other forums. So theory: could it be that gun owners are suffering from lead poisoning?
Symptoms include:
slowed body growth
reduced IQ
loss of appetite and weight loss
constipation and mild abdominal pain
irritability
general fatigue
blue tinge around the gums
anemia
hearing loss and reduction in other senses
neurological weakness, in the later stages
I guess nobody will believe me when I say, "no snark", but I truly wonder lead exposure from guns. Look at the gun happy USA, don't they seem to exhibit the above symptoms more than Canadians? (sans "weight loss", haha, snark!!)
I think you should turn around and go back where you came from.
Ask stupid questions, get rewarded with stupid prizes bro
- Location
- Southern Ontario
"go back where you came from".
Wow, maybe this is a USA site.
Just trying to fit in, bro!
Wow, maybe this is a USA site.
Just trying to fit in, bro!
I have a question for you, do you own a GSG-16? If yes, next question is are you interested in modding it?
If the answer is no, then, with all due respect, why are you reading or commenting in this thread?
If the answer is yes, then please post some constructive ideas on how to make a GSG16 look like an MP5. Not theoretical analysis on energies and muzzle velocities.
- Location
- Southern Ontario
These modifications can affect how the gun functions. Why not discuss that too?
Why does it have to be only about how it looks?
I do have a GSG-16 and I do have interest in modifying it, but what if I didn't?
Then "go back where you came from?"
Why do you think you can tell ppl on the net what they can and can't talk about or ask about? There's a guy with his sig saying "free Hong Kong". Pretty sure we should all want to be able to discuss and say or ask what we want to. You want to be the thought-police?
Mind you, if your gig is to go around telling ppl what we should be allowed to discuss, I guess that's your freedom of speech right as well. So carry on I guess.
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Guys, please don't start that on this thread. I don't want this degrading into petty bickering. Everyone thinks they have the exclusive right to voice their opinions, and that's true. But, and this is a big but, we pay good money to promote our company and products on this forum and would like to keep it positive and focused on the product in question.
Please and thank you, keep it about the GSG barrels.
Please and thank you, keep it about the GSG barrels.
Trying to "fit in" as in insulting gun owners saying they have lead poisoning and such ?
Yeah, this "community" really don't need another jackass making us look like retards.
You couldn't even pay attention during your PAL/RPAL course, let alone your lack of legal knowledge on this sport.
Do us all a favor in deleting your account.
P.S.: Sorry Dlask, read your post after posting.
- Location
- Southern Ontario
If you read the context, I was basically saying "aren't silencers illegal in Canada?"
But regardless, Why are folks so butthurt about silencer legality?
Why are they illegal anyways, and why is it sacrilegious to even mention it without mega hostility?
I didn't get 100% on the PAL exam, did you?
Some folks saying, "you sound too smart with your numbers talk", and now you're accusing me of not paying attention in class. Chill!
As for "fitting in", I meant fitting in by having a similarly crappily uncensored writing style as I've seen displayed here.
But regardless, Why are folks so butthurt about silencer legality?
Why are they illegal anyways, and why is it sacrilegious to even mention it without mega hostility?
I didn't get 100% on the PAL exam, did you?
Some folks saying, "you sound too smart with your numbers talk", and now you're accusing me of not paying attention in class. Chill!
As for "fitting in", I meant fitting in by having a similarly crappily uncensored writing style as I've seen displayed here.
