Anybody shooting a 6mm-284?

I've never shot F-class and never will = I have absolutely no interest in ever doing it.

I shoot coyotes lots of them I shoot them with everything from 17 Rem < -> 6mm-284 the only reason I have a 6mm-284 that I load with 70gr Ballistic Tips is that it does things at 500 yards that I like.

I do not shoot hundreds of rounds thru this rifle all I have to do now is at the beginning of each coyote season I check/correct zero then shoot tops 15 - 30 rounds for the year sometimes even less.

My barrel will last me my lifetime.
 
I think maybe there's more to this super high velocity thing. Here's a link to a rifle recoil calculator that takes into consideration the powder weight itself when calculating. When you think about recoil that must occur with 80 grain powder charges, maybe these rifles are not so accurate? It's hard to shoot a rifle accurately that has heavy recoil unless the gun is real heavy too, but that's no good for coyotes.
http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
 
c-fbmi said:
You are so hung up on this F-class obsession that you have your thinking turned 180 degrees my friend...........the real proving ground is NOT on the range but in the field. F-class is a GAME, like video games and has no real meaning
A) I have no "obsession" with F-Class but I do understand and appreciate that 200 well heeled guys on the firing line in Ontario (and thousands internationally) are all looking for some sort of ballistic advantage over the other shooters. If any of these very well versed and well funded shooters felt that a 6-284 was worth using - they'd be using it. enough said on that.

B) Where in the heck do you get off assuming that I don't hunt? I've spent 25 years of my life self employed with the time, freedom and resources to hunt and fish more than most people could possibly do in a lifetime. Just because I have recently been spending more time on the range, don't assume that I haven't done my time in the field, cause I certainly have, but my tenting it in the woods days are long over. These days it's just the odd corporate hunt, spoiled, fed and a warm bed and I'm ok with that.

Denial is a powerful thing and you can stick your head in the sand all you want, but the super fast light bullet will always get beat by the heavier bullet with a higher BC when you consider ALL the variables including accuracy, wind, recoil and bullets that blow up in flight. Fast and light is just old school. 30 years ago that was cutting edge. Out in the field it will get the job done sure, I wont argue that. It's just that this thread started out exploring the "advantage" of the 6-284 and I'd just suggest a guy would be better off with the 6.5-284. It wins on the F-Class track so it'll win on the hunt too.

All the above aside, we may very well be splitting hairs here because if a guy knows his rifle, the caliber wont make up the difference. Even on my beloved F-Class track, it's not unheard of for a guy with a lowly 308 to win the whole deal. Most of the time practice and trigger time will get you further than a hot caliber.

. . and hey, once you accept that - first thing ya know... you're an F-Class shooter.

funny huh~
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I do not for the life of me see where you got the notion that F-class shooting is the proving ground for hunting cartridges. It is a game played putting holes in paper........period. My 6-284 is not my primary hunting rifle it's a fun gun for zapping stuff out to 4-500 mtrs maybe. The OPs question was who has one and what do they know and will share about it (6-284). I doubt you have ever owned one, given your negativity towards it and you're just espousing your opinion and what you have heard or read about it, with out any experience what-so-ever. It is a fine and fun cartridge and I don't give a rats a$$ if it wins F-class shoots or not..........I suspect I have a lot of rifles that won't win F-class shoots, but have successfully taken game over a lot of the planet, to the tune of several hundred head.
I am glad you take pride in your F-class accomplishments, I too take pride in my sport, but I usually only need one shot to accomplish my goals, like Marco Polo sheep and Altai Argali and Elephant, lion, leopard, cape buffalo, hippo, bongo, Dall sheep (several), caribou, moose, bears etc. Besides in my opinion a trophy room just doesn't look the same or have the same impact with walls covered in targets............and I seriously doubt if I've taken one head of game with what would be considered a serious F-class cartridge !!! Go figure, how could that have possibly happened ? I guess I must just be one lucky SOB, what with my bullets only going 4-500 mtrs and then dropping from the skies like flies. I really hate to break it to you but I don't consider F-class winning cartridges to be real hunting calibers, they are specialized cartridges with which to play a game..........my 300 Wby is a true hunting cartridge.
 
c-fbmi... It sounds like you've had a very interesting life and that's awesome, really... cool.

But sorry bud you're just not getting it. I'm NOT exactly disagreeing with you. I agree that you can kill animals with just about any modern cartridge. Nobody "needs" a 300 Weatherby to kill any animal on the planet, it's just a personal preference. I'm not saying that a guy couldn't kill lots of stuff with a 6-284 either. People all too often put undue emphasis on caliber selection and in the case of this thread – blistering speeds. It’s just not necessary. Those high speeds do come with a downside, but even so, they’ll kill stuff, lots of stuff. I don’t dispute that.


Where I'm stepin away from you is the idea that cartridges used in F-Class are somehow categorically unsuitable for hunting. That's just crazy talk. What is used by the top shooters are cartridges that do one thing very very well. They hit where the shooter wants them to go all the way out to 1000 yards. I will admit though that the difference in terms of cartridge performance between the top shooter and the guy in 20th place is a hairs breadth these days, so to focus too heavily on cartridge alone is a fools errand. These super hot cartridges that have been mentioned in this thread can work for hunting or even competition, but they can also be "very problematic", and it’s for that reason that they have fallen out of favor in competition, and the hunting community needs to catch up, not vice versa. I know for an absolute fact that certain bullets that were a dismal failure in F-Class are still being made today and were re-labeled and are now being sold as “Hunting Bullets”.

We've seen these problems occur during match competition because we shoot enough rounds in a day or a year for the issues to become apparent. Sure hunters can ignore these infrequent failures on the pretense that they don’t shoot enough rounds in a year for it to matter, but I can’t agree with that because it’s just a reckless gamble.

Don’t confuse the 100 yard bench rest with F-Class either because we’re a world apart. We collectively use in F-Class some of the most advanced calibers imaginable and for one caliber to gain a following it has to prove itself in terms of reliability and accuracy- which includes high speeds - but within reason and high wind bucking. The perfect balance of all these traits are also very desirable in a hunting round.

There is nothing about most of these so called “paper punching” rounds that would make them unsuitable for hunting. My god it’s quite the opposite actually. One of the guys this summer put 20 out of 20 shots inside a 10 inch circle at 1000 yards and 16 of the 20 were into a 5 inch circle. He was running about 75 grains of powder and a 180 grain bullet. Now whatever it was that he was using (he’s real secretive about the load recipe) would make for an awesome hunting round. He also had only 20 minutes of elevation up from a 100 yard zero. That’s flat! Oh ya, we shoot in squads alternating between 3 shooters so there’s a time delay between shots, no string shooting in Canada.

Another buddy is running 30 cal 215 grainers with a BC of .750 at 3150 FPS with 80 grains of powder. Let me tell ya sumthin - that's some serious knock down, flat shooting too. This is his windy day rifle and it shoots bug holes.

If there's anything about F-Class that does not translate to hunting, it's certainly not the calibers, it's the rifles weight. They are usually between 14 to 21 pounds, so you don't want to walk far with them.

I’m not obsessed with F-Class but I am passionate about it. If you don’t follow F-Class which is the fastest growing shooting sport in the world BTW, you may not have noticed the influence it has had on product development. F-Class is where the testing is done that one day becomes your new hunting rifle. A perfect example is the recent trend to 1:8 twist barrels for many new 223s, that’s F-Class baby, straight up.

If you don’t agree with me, that’s just fine. You’re just on the outside looking in, that’s all.
 
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The key to all of this is for me is called DRT or bang/flop.

I do not shoot coyotes beyond 150 yards with a 223 or coyotes with a 22-250 beyond 300 yards not because it won't kill them past that its that they do not reliably DRT beyond those ranges.

My 6mm-284 does this out to 500 yards for me.

I'm not looking to just put a hole thru an animal I want it instantly dead not running off to die in some thick bush 50 - 100 yards away where I can't find it.
 
First I want to apologize to Double Gun for side-tracking this thread .
There are statements in #47 that I beg to differ with.
I re-barreled my F-class 223 with an 8" twist tube and the barrel maker himself in his words said F-class shooters can thank technical development on this to work done for the military to be capable of using heavier than 69 gr. loads in the M16 type rifles.
As for F-class being the proving ground for accurate cartridges I think that nonsense, accurate cartridges have been around a damnsite longer than F-class, if anything F-class cartridges have been developed from accurate hunting rounds.
F-class has only been around since the 1990s, I know because I had the pleasure of meeting and shooting with the late George Farquharson whose original intention was to devise a shooting match that old geezers like myself could participate in and enjoy shooting as we grow old.
Unfortunately now, like IPSC I feel that it is swiftly becoming a rich mans race... sorry nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Cartridges like the 6-284 and 6.5-284 came about before F-class and were in use before, refined perhaps by F-class competitors but in existence before...
 
All this back and forth leads me to a question, has F-class shooting brought us any new cartridges or new designs, as benchrest has or even silhouette? It is my understanding that it has not and you guys just take already established hunting cartridges and build heavy accurate rifles around them.
As far as failures in the field being more acceptable than on the bench, you couldn't be more wrong........the consequences of a failure on the bench or during a match are what..............you don't win !!! Some of the stuff I hunt and have hunted come with just slightly greater consequences if I experience a failure in the field..........like losing an animal with a trophy fee of up to $25,000 right up to being turned into part of the African landscape, or becoming scat a day or two down the road. I feel these to be more dire consequences than heading home after not winning or placing in a match because I had a rifle or ammo failure.
I'm sorry but IMHO F-class brings next to nothing to the shooting sports other than the thrill of competition. It's just a bunch of guys saying "me and my highly modified hunting rifle can shoot smaller groups than yours". It is also my opinion that few manufacturers are even slightly concerned with making specialized components for F-class except maybe Berger, and we all know how much Berger is highly respected and clamored for in the hunting circles...........
I can find no reasoning in your arguments against the 6-284 as a fun hunting cartridge and according to your own statements at least one guy shooting F-class is using a cartridge that matches my 300 Wby ballistics, perfectly, on windy days, so what exactly is that saying? My chosen hunting cartridge is an ideal F-class cartridge for windy days, isn't that exactly the opposite of what you are trying to propose.
Ability to group at 1000 mtrs has very little to do with hunting and if it IS that impotant I have my 50 BMG for that kind of shooting !!!
 
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c-fbmi said:
As far as failures in the field being more acceptable than on the bench, you couldn't be more wrong........the consequences of a failure on the bench or during a match are what..............you don't win !!! Some of the stuff I hunt and have hunted come with just slightly greater consequences if I experience a failure in the field..........like losing an animal with a trophy fee of up to $25,000 right up to being turned into part of the African landscape, or becoming scat a day or two down the road.
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Hang on a minute… so you agree that hitting the animal is important! That’s my point! I was under the impression that you didn’t care! I thought you were kind of a speed of light or bust kind of guy.

A common problem that we encounter in competition is regarding bullet failure at high velocity. This is quite a common problem, so we run heavier bullets to reduce velocity and enhance the wind fighting and thereby reduce the odds of a bullet failure. I thought this concept would be advantageous for hunters! But with all the touting of ultra high velocity rounds I naturally just assumed that you didn’t care if this happened. It’s nice to see that you are in agreement with me on this point.

So you agree that our goals are actually one in the same!! awesome!


I'm not trying to suggest that F-Class are the developers and provers of all things good.

Wildcat cartridge development has been going on for a hundred years and no single group on either side of the fence could claim they own the concept. What I am saying in this regard is f-class has popularized certain competition proven calibers and configurations. Now for example Savage is offering FTR rifles and FO rifles in 6.5-284!

As for this thread with the 6-284, this round became popularized in f-class as a 6.5-284 as a wildcat and is now being offered as a factory round because of that.

In the example of the 223 1:8 twist, again I'm not suggesting that we somehow invented the concept. We proved it out in match competition and popularized it to the extent that companies are much more frequently offering it. Even though for hunting I feel a 1:7 is actually better, but that's a whole other thing.

Manufacturers will produce whatever sells. As long as there are died in the wool traditionalists out there the market will turn very slowly.

Once upon a time the 222 Rem was the go to varmint round and now it’s almost unheard of because everyone shoots a 223 instead. Not to say there’s anything wrong with the 222. I don't even want to think about going down this path.
 
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I can honestly say that I have never blown up a hunting bullet due to extreme velocity..........this phenomena is reserved exclusively to match bullets, which I have vaporized on their way to the target. But again there is no correlation to hunting, as most knowledgeable hunters don't use match bullets or even C+C bullets when velocities exceed 3000 fps. I also do not use light for caliber bullets at extreme velocities because of the low BCs these bullets have and fully recognize the advantages of the upper weight end of any caliber's bullet selection, and have for decades before F-class shooting began.

This whole debate is meaningless and none of your arguments hold water because the OP didn't ask about the suitability of the 6-284 as an F-class caliber, he asked what experience we had with it, and mine through 4 or 5 rifles has been extremely positive as a light game and big varmint cartridge......absolutely perfect for wolves, coyotes, smaller deer and groundhogs..........it's effect on gophers and crows has to be seen to be believed and it anchors coyotes out past the 1/2 Km mark even with a gut shot. This is what I believe the OPs question was related to, not it's suitability as an F-class competition cartridge...............unless I missed something along the way !!
 
Your a sucker for punishment coming back to argue with this internet genious..............do a search and learn how to use the ignore button.....

The only developments that have ever come from the F class field in regards to rifles is stock designs..........and maybe perhaps single shot actions, both entirely useless in the hunting field....just sayin'
 
c-fmbi

Have you ever tried the .22x64? GS Custom bullets has a write up - older but still interesting. The got their 40gr Mono going to just over 4800fps, but stuck with a mere 4700 fps load for hunting. It would be interesting with a 62gr TTSX.

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/22x64.html
 
yodave said:
Your a sucker for punishment coming back to argue with this internet genious..............do a search and learn how to use the ignore button.....

The only developments that have ever come from the F class field in regards to rifles is stock designs..........and maybe perhaps single shot actions, both entirely useless in the hunting field....just sayin'
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Yodave.......Yes I am.........however as skewed as I believe his thinking may be, he at least has the courtesy to remain respectful during this debate. For that I respect him as a person, if not his point of view.
 
1899 said:
c-fmbi

Have you ever tried the .22x64? GS Custom bullets has a write up - older but still interesting. The got their 40gr Mono going to just over 4800fps, but stuck with a mere 4700 fps load for hunting. It would be interesting with a 62gr TTSX.

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/22x64.html
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Nope 1899, but I am working with a 22-284 which for all intents and purposes is a ballistic twin with the same powder capacity but running through a short action. And supposedly the advantages of the shorter fatter powder column. Looking for 4000 fps with the 80 gn SMK or Berger 90 gn both of which have BCs over .5. Then I'm going on a 2 week baboon killing spree, which is the sole purpose of building and developing this rifle and cartridge. If it's not shot out by the time I'm through with this expedition, I may zap some coyotes around here with it and keep the gophers and crows out of the pasture.
I'm hoping for 1/2 moa with it for 10 well spaced shots out to 500 mtrs, and given the build that should be possible, may even be able to do better.
 
Thanks for the link 1899, an interesting read.
When you said 22X64 my knee-jerk reaction was to assume the parent case was maybe the 7X64, but apparently its a 270..
 
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