Maybe I am alone here but since the remington 710 there have been many "economy" rifles to follow suit such as the Axis, 770, American and now even Browning has one. Remington introduced the 710 and 770 I was appalled by the cheapness and could not believe anyone would want this sort of junk to save a few hundred bucks. I and many others now look at remington rifles and immediately think of these rifles and have no faith in the quality of any rifle made by them. Another thing I have noticed is the influx of fly by night hunters buying these things the day before the season because they are "sighted in right out of the box" and no shooting is required. It seems to me that the sport of hunting has been cheapened by this as no more do people have to invest a decent amount of time and money to ensure only people with a genuine interest in the sport pursue it. Instead we get guys who just try it out because of the low investment and bragging rights of having a magnum rifle. Now with Browning having an economy rifle the amount of browning symbols all over everything is going to skyrocket and some of these people may actually own a Browning. I realize that these are great shooters but thats where it ends. I firmly believe that the only quality ecomomy rifle is a vanguard and even those are not real economy anymore. Sorry maybe I got to much time on my hands today so I will end my rant. Agree or disagree I appreciate your replies.
Anyone else think economy rifles degrade brand?
- Thread starter shorttrac
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Sbarkowski
Regular
Amen brother!!
I understand there is a need for these economy rifles, cheap to produce and easy to sell to the general public. Hunting can get expensive and not everyone is willing to invest $1000 into something they might shoot twice a year. But I find it difficult to have faith in a company that can produce something like that and are still willing to put their name on it. I think some manufactures should have stayed true to building quality firearms and retain their reputation than to jump on the economy rifle bandwagon. In the end its all about the profits I guess.
I understand there is a need for these economy rifles, cheap to produce and easy to sell to the general public. Hunting can get expensive and not everyone is willing to invest $1000 into something they might shoot twice a year. But I find it difficult to have faith in a company that can produce something like that and are still willing to put their name on it. I think some manufactures should have stayed true to building quality firearms and retain their reputation than to jump on the economy rifle bandwagon. In the end its all about the profits I guess.
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- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
It is marketing and sales, some can't afford or justify higher end equipment.
How do you get these people into your product? Offer something that appeals to them.
Exact same scenario with car manufacturers.Topaz vs Lincoln would be similar comparison.If all you sold was Lincolns you wouldn't be around long in N.America.
How do you get these people into your product? Offer something that appeals to them.
Exact same scenario with car manufacturers.Topaz vs Lincoln would be similar comparison.If all you sold was Lincolns you wouldn't be around long in N.America.
Bull####. Hunting isn't a country club with a minimum bank balance required for membership. I challenge anyone to outshoot the abilities of most of these "economy" rifles while in a standing position (most common hunting shot). If the decent accuracy isn't what is required for hunting, are you suggesting that rifles should be judged by "fondleability"? By your logic no one should be allowed to drive a Sunfire, Focus, or any Kia model.
The only quality rifle is a Vanguard????? Elitest posts like this are self administered "tummy rubs".
The only quality rifle is a Vanguard????? Elitest posts like this are self administered "tummy rubs".
I agree with the OP, but as long as quality firearms are still available, I couldn't care less if someone else likes his $300 jack handle.
As to the "I challenge anyone to outshoot the abilities of most of these "economy" rifles while in a standing position" comment, while somewhat true, some look at it this way, if you miss the POA and the rifle is not as accurate as desired, it can multiply the distance you missed by, possibly causing lost or injured game. I for one like to know that the only reason for a miss or poor shot was my own fault, not my equipments fault. Plus an accurate rifle builds confidence, which to many helps improve their shooting ability. There is nothing worse than taking a shot at something and doubting your chances of a good hit, I learned long ago that having confidence in my rifle, and myself, improved my shooting ability second only to a lot of practice.
As to the "I challenge anyone to outshoot the abilities of most of these "economy" rifles while in a standing position" comment, while somewhat true, some look at it this way, if you miss the POA and the rifle is not as accurate as desired, it can multiply the distance you missed by, possibly causing lost or injured game. I for one like to know that the only reason for a miss or poor shot was my own fault, not my equipments fault. Plus an accurate rifle builds confidence, which to many helps improve their shooting ability. There is nothing worse than taking a shot at something and doubting your chances of a good hit, I learned long ago that having confidence in my rifle, and myself, improved my shooting ability second only to a lot of practice.
- Location
- Prince Albert, Sk
So, what would happen if someones Cooper or Kimber or Weatherby couldn't duplicate these results?
That there gentlemen is a Remington 710 with the factory optics shooting factory ammo.
Highly doubt your game will notice you turning your nose up in the air!!
So shorttrac, what do you prefer to shoot?
That there gentlemen is a Remington 710 with the factory optics shooting factory ammo.
Highly doubt your game will notice you turning your nose up in the air!!
So shorttrac, what do you prefer to shoot?
I can guarantee you that the vast majority of my game animals were not shot off hand. I do use offhand shots on occasion, but most of my shots on game involve either an improvised rest, or shooting from a sitting position, using my knee as a rest. As well, after actually shooting a few 710/770 rifles, the rough actions forced me to concentrate on just cycling the action after shooting , rather than concentrating on getting the rifle back on target. If a backup shot was required, the rough action would definitely have delayed my ability to take that second shot.
If any one of my Cooper rifles couldn't do considerably better than that with the ammunition that I work up in them to hunt with, I would have a major issue with the rifle.Then again, I count on my hunting rifles to be accurate to at least 500 yards. Even my Tikka rifles do much better than that. As well, I only see one three shot group, which doesn't prove a great deal. I also see other holes in that target, which are not explained. And by the way, how quickly could you have gotten off the second shot with the 710, if a backup shot was required?
That being said, I have no issue with cheap guns being available, because I don't have to use them.
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shorttrac,
You have to remember that a lot of people will only want to go hunting on an occasional bases. So spending thousands of dollars on a "quality hunting rig" would most likely mean they would just pass on hunting. I don't think the axis line cheapens the savage line or the ruger american cheapens the ruger line, etc, etc.... it only adds an inexpensive option that at times, are actually reliable and accurate.
To me a hunting rifle is a tool and doesn't need to be admired by all that come within viewing distance of it. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting to use a high end rifle for hunting, but IMHO believe it does not add to the hunting experience.
I'd rather be able to hunt with a friend or family member with a "economy rifle" than not at all because they didn't feel they could justify a more expensive rifle.
Happy easter to all!
You have to remember that a lot of people will only want to go hunting on an occasional bases. So spending thousands of dollars on a "quality hunting rig" would most likely mean they would just pass on hunting. I don't think the axis line cheapens the savage line or the ruger american cheapens the ruger line, etc, etc.... it only adds an inexpensive option that at times, are actually reliable and accurate.
To me a hunting rifle is a tool and doesn't need to be admired by all that come within viewing distance of it. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting to use a high end rifle for hunting, but IMHO believe it does not add to the hunting experience.
I'd rather be able to hunt with a friend or family member with a "economy rifle" than not at all because they didn't feel they could justify a more expensive rifle.
Happy easter to all!
I want Canadians to have as many guns as possible. That means cheap guns have to be available. I want this country saturated with them. I want so many guns that eliminating them becomes a logistical IMPOSSIBILITY. I want guns to exist at a minimum of 1:1 ratio with knives.
gunrunner100
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- NW Ontario
Che-vette or Cor-vette? Either way, someone still bought a "vette"!
When someone buys a "cheap" or inexpensive rifle, it allows them to get into the sport. My first "cheap" rifle was a Lee Enfield. As the years passed and I could afford better, I bought a used Parker Hale 1200C. Went from that one to another 1200C, then a Browning A-Bolt, then a Sako, now Steyr.
If I didn't like hunting, or couldn't afford it, I would have stopped at the Lee Enfield.
When someone buys a "cheap" or inexpensive rifle, it allows them to get into the sport. My first "cheap" rifle was a Lee Enfield. As the years passed and I could afford better, I bought a used Parker Hale 1200C. Went from that one to another 1200C, then a Browning A-Bolt, then a Sako, now Steyr.
If I didn't like hunting, or couldn't afford it, I would have stopped at the Lee Enfield.
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I cried when i scratched the sh!t out of my 10-fcpk with Vortex PST while hunting... So I bought a Ruger american with a redfeild scope, and I now hunt with that instead...
I love my cheap hunting riffle. But it only shoots 1 inch groups at 100 ... The deer didn't see the difference....
I love my cheap hunting riffle. But it only shoots 1 inch groups at 100 ... The deer didn't see the difference....
They have thier place.. I don't need a 2k coyote rifle. Instead I have 3 axis combos that me any my buddies take out. Guns that I don't worry if I smash it .. Sounds like a great loaner to me AND they shoot MOA.
That being said for when it counts .. My turkey/duck/deer shotguns I have nothing but benellis and winchesters my moose and deer rifles are Brownings and nice rem 700s .. But I do use cheap bush guns (m305, marlins hell even sks).. Bottom line is the cheaper the hobby is to get into the more people will do it and that is why we have the cheap rifles
That being said for when it counts .. My turkey/duck/deer shotguns I have nothing but benellis and winchesters my moose and deer rifles are Brownings and nice rem 700s .. But I do use cheap bush guns (m305, marlins hell even sks).. Bottom line is the cheaper the hobby is to get into the more people will do it and that is why we have the cheap rifles
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Call me Elitist, but I won't even buy standard Remington rifles any more, they have cheapened the entire line and QC is so bad now that I have no confidence in them any more. I got rid of my last Remington a year ago. Those who want them can buy the new crop of cheap junky rifles from Remington, Savage, and others, but I won't. I'd much rather buy an old but still good rifle that was made with skill, care and attention to detail, or just buy a new European arm that was built with no compromises.
So I shoot a bunch of old Brno's and some newer Sakos and Anschutz rifles, and a smattering of Heym, Merkel, Sauer and Krieghoff.
Ruger is the one American manufacturer that impressed me with economical pricing combined with decent quality, but now they sell the "American" - a giant step backwards to me, and I'll never own owe.
So I shoot a bunch of old Brno's and some newer Sakos and Anschutz rifles, and a smattering of Heym, Merkel, Sauer and Krieghoff.
Ruger is the one American manufacturer that impressed me with economical pricing combined with decent quality, but now they sell the "American" - a giant step backwards to me, and I'll never own owe.
burnt_servo
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- right in the middle of b.c.
it isn't the entry level / ecnonmy level rifles that are hurting things , it is the lack of quality and quality control that is happening on many new rfiles including the so called high end rifles .
Love the responses guys exactly what is looking for. I don't shoot anything in particular, I shoot whatever I can get my hands on whether it is my a- bolt white gold to my savage 114 stainless. I think people are missing my point with what I feel is a worthy rifle. I don't think everyone needs a sako but I do think if it were me I would buy a used 700, a-bolt, x-bolt, vanguard, m77 ect from EE on here for 500-700 tops. I don't feel that is a make or break price point and won't have a foot of play in the bolt. I realize these shoot well and that is not my point, tons of guys with these outshoot much more expensive rifles everyday.
To me the inexpensive axis helped me get more into shooting. I spent many days sitting at the range, first day I sighted it in.. yes it may be sighted from factory but it was a good foot off target when I was shooting. It now sits a comfortable 1"~ above my aimpoint at 100 yards. Yes its not sub MOA rifle but with a good shooter behind it, it ain't that bad.
I can't afford good optics and good rifles so I buy as inexpensive as I can to enjoy my hobby. I don't buy pure junk mind you but I buy within my limited budget. Right now I'm working on removing my debt and saving up to move into a new house with my GF... unfortunately I have higher priorities then shooting. Although I am young still at 22 but I slowly plan on upgrading my rifles to nice models as I get the money to.
I can't afford good optics and good rifles so I buy as inexpensive as I can to enjoy my hobby. I don't buy pure junk mind you but I buy within my limited budget. Right now I'm working on removing my debt and saving up to move into a new house with my GF... unfortunately I have higher priorities then shooting. Although I am young still at 22 but I slowly plan on upgrading my rifles to nice models as I get the money to.
No matter how much you spend on a Kia...............its still a Kia.
The entire Remington brand is an economy brand. Brownings not far behind but at least they put a little more effort in wood and metal finish.
Id agree with you there.
The entire Remington brand is an economy brand. Brownings not far behind but at least they put a little more effort in wood and metal finish.
Id agree with you there.
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