Anyone else think economy rifles degrade brand?

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Paying more money for a certain product does not always get you a better performing product. For example in the auto industry GM has prooven this with their ZR-1, it out performs cars costing twice as much, with so much race track head to head testing to proove it. Sometimes you do get a better product with paying more, but if your wife like's Guess hand-bags let her aware that $1500.00 purse costs 23.00 to produce. Guns are no different you can pay a pile of cash for a nice looking gun, it doesn't always mean it will outshoot a 4-500.00 gun. Manufacturers are building the guns because they are selling in high volume, that's what buisiness is all about, build a product that sells. To each their own, that's why there's choice.
 
emerson said:
Bull####. Hunting isn't a country club with a minimum bank balance required for membership. I challenge anyone to outshoot the abilities of most of these "economy" rifles while in a standing position (most common hunting shot). If the decent accuracy isn't what is required for hunting, are you suggesting that rifles should be judged by "fondleability"? By your logic no one should be allowed to drive a Sunfire, Focus, or any Kia model.

The only quality rifle is a Vanguard????? Elitest posts like this are self administered "tummy rubs".
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Well said! :agree:
 
A computer used to cost thousands of dollars and was not near as good as a $600 one now. Are some manufacturers just being more efficient now without compromising quality? A better stock and finish is nice, but like others have stated...the deer don't notice.
 
A computer used to cost thousands of dollars and was not near as good as a $600 one now. Are some manufacturers just being more efficient now without compromising quality? A better stock and finish is nice, but like others have stated...the deer don't notice.
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The Remington 710/770 greatly compromises quality.
 
If there is one thing in life that you get what you pay for is definately firearms. Anyone think a 770 or a axis is the same quality as a tikka, a-bolt or CZ? If there is one thing I did not want to come across it is arrogant and I never said that a Vanguard is the only quality rifle, I said it is the only quality economy rifle.
 
I dont see anyone here looking down on someone with an inexpensive rifle, I see people looking down on the manufacturers for producing inferior products.

I dont think anyone here could care less if you paid $200 or $2000 on the rifle you use, it's more about the horrible trend of piss poor quality, fit, finish, dependability, etc...


To me, it makes WAY more sense to buy an older used firearm of quality production for 200-400 than spend that same hard earned $$ on a modern Walmart bargain bin POS.

Quality firearms for under $400 are very very easy to find, start at tradex, and go from there.
 
I used to have cheap firearms when I was younger, but eventually they were all traded and sold off for quality over quantity....No regrets and they did the job when needed...

I don't really care what anyone else uses, and I use what I want...
 
I am curious, could someone tell me or better yet show me the difference between a projectile fired from a 2000K rifle vs a $300 bargain rifle?

Is there a .5 or 1 or 2 MOA difference for every $500 you spend??

They are designed to do one thing , be the base to launch the projectile.

I haven't yet personally known anyone to loose an animal based on poor build quality or lesser valued rifles.They all can freeze , they all can fail, they are machines.

You will however pay for greater and finer workmanship.

So as for the word "degrade" , it is a personal opinion.If it is an issue for some buyers, well then don't buy from that manufacturer.

Mercedes made sure that the production staff of Slumdog Millionaire removed all the markings on the Mercedes vehicles used in the movie so that their product wouldn't be directly associated with poverty.

The manufacturers are filling a niche and it is good that they are.
 
I must have too much time on my hands tonight as well to get involved in this thread but here goes. I do have a few lower end rifles around to serve a specific purpose such as a NEF 223 that I keep behind the truck seat on road trips. I ordered a Axis 223 package a while ago without ever even handling one in person and when it showed up in the mail I picked it up, put the bolt in, took it out, wrapped it back up and sold it. I have a range in my backyard and have shot and sighted in alot of rifles over the years for my friends. I have never found a cheap rifle that can out shoot my Sakos or Cooper. To be fair I have not done the same amount of load develpment on them as I have done on my own rifles. I do not look down on anyone who choses to own these budget lines but I do believe that if no one bought them the manufactures would have to step up the quality of their products. They only exsist because there is a market for them and I'm just glad that I'm at a place in my life where I don't have to use them.
 
B-78 said:
I must have too much time on my hands tonight as well to get involved in this thread but here goes. I do have a few lower end rifles around to serve a specific purpose such as a NEF 223 that I keep behind the truck seat on road trips. I ordered a Axis 223 package a while ago without ever even handling one in person and when it showed up in the mail I picked it up, put the bolt in, took it out, wrapped it back up and sold it. I have a range in my backyard and have shot and sighted in alot of rifles over the years for my friends. I have never found a cheap rifle that can out shoot my Sakos or Cooper. To be fair I have not done the same amount of load develpment on them as I have done on my own rifles. I do not look down on anyone who choses to own these budget lines but I do believe that if no one bought them the manufactures would have to step up the quality of their products. They only exsist because there is a market for them and I'm just glad that I'm at a place in my life where I don't have to use them.
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It's called supply and demand... if there is a demand, someone will be there to supply it... ergo, there is a demand for cheaper guns and many manufacturers are recognizing it...
 
Quality over quantity. Like all tools I rather have 1 quality over 2 cheapos. Don't care about brand name, care about quality cause I hate using cheap tools.
 
This has been a very interesting thread as I figured it would be. I appreciate all comments and welcome many more. I do not look down on any one persons financial position or personal decisions as to what firearm he/she decides is best for them, I just have learned the hard way to many times buying inferior products and trading them back in at a huge loss to upgrade to what I should have bought in the first place. I firmly believe that there are many great options that do not fall in this plastic fantastic category. This does not require much more financial investment and is not guaranteed to shoot a lot better. I was once told by a very smart person when upgrading my car there are three options cheap, Fast, and reliable, but you cant have all three. If you want your car to be cheap and fast it cant be reliable or if you want it to be reliable and cheap it wont be fast ect I think the same applies to rifles.
 
skip1600 said:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?841972-Crash-Test-Axis-THE-FUN-BEGINS

My first browning A bolt fell apart when I slipped and fell climbing up a small ridge .. That being said browning did well by me but this savage took a lot more and kept on clicking.
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Good god! The scope setup on the rifle in that first picture is pants on head retarded. Anyone ever heard of cheek weld or ergonomics? Wow...

On topic:

I have found that there is a certain magical point where quality becomes acceptable to me.

Anything below it and things tend to break, rust easily, have defects from the factory, be made with cheaper materials less likely to withstand heavy use in hunting, greater felt recoil, rough actions, rough triggers, misaligned scope base holes, flexy stocks, plastic everywhere, cast bolt handles, horrible finish on bolt face etc.

I consider a s2 Vanguard (particularly stainless) to be above that line. All metal, one piece bolt. Easily disassembled bolt for very good cleaning in the field after rain/snow. Solid feeling stock, no flex etc. I also like FN made Winchesters, Browning, weatherby Mark V, Sako 85 Bavarian, etc.

For my $, I find that the Ruger American, Savage ANYTHING, Remington 770, etc are not worth the money they cost. They have a negative value to me.

It's not about being a snob, I can just tell that they're not suitable for the purpose I would be buying them for.

Only the person buying the tool can decide if it will live up to the expected usage.

To some people, rifles are more than tools. It's their hobby - not unlike a sport fan spending $$$ on season tickets, TV Channel packs, jerseys, etc. To them, the rifle might be more appreciated as art than a tool. That's fine for them.
 
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ALBERTA BOY said:
Good god! The scope setup on the rifle in that first picture is pants on head retarded. Anyone ever heard of cheek weld or ergonomics? Wow...
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Did you actually read any of it? He stated that he only had that scope/mount on hand and used a towel on the comb.. And still shot a half minute
 
It's very interesting to me that no posts here called anyone else down for using an "economical" modern rifle. Many pointed out that they would not buy such, and many also pointed out that better options exist in the high quality used gun market. But several budget minded shooters chose to take offence at those with different opinions, and called them snobs and old boys and worse. That says less to me about "elitism" and snobs than it does about self absorbed and insecure beginners who don't know what real quality is or why it matters. Poor judgement reinforced by defensive posturing. Kinda sad.
 
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