Anyone get scammed selling on CGN?

Is there a possibility that the discrepancy here is caused by a misunderstanding about whether or not the agreed-upon price included shipping costs? I've had that happen a couple of times; during the negotiation I agreed to a price that included shipping (as the ad stated a "shipped" price) and the buyer then asked if I would accept a higher price, thinking he needed to add the shipping cost in. I've always responded that yes, I would sell it to him for that higher price if he insisted...but then I clarified and suggested he send the agreed-upon price and no more, lol.

It's funny, everybody is always so indignant about the hoops that we as gun sellers and buyers must jump through...but there are so many wannabe detectives coming on here and suggesting all sorts of ways to add more! Do the PAL verification online as required, and that means you have confirmed that the name belongs to the PAL# and that the PAL is currently valid. Then make sure the picture on that valid PAL matches the face of the buyer, either by comparing it to another piece of photo ID like a DL, or by just looking at the picture in person with your own two eyeballs in person or via video call.

That's it, that's the requirement. Why do any more than what's required? It doesn't matter who pays for the gun; the concern is about who receives the gun. I've had lots of cases where the EMT was sent by a wife or other relative. No problem, as long as the gun is received by the verified PAL holder, I don't care about who hands me the cash or sends me the EMT. I have autodeposit, and once I receive the notification that the money has been deposited in my account, it's not reversible and I'm happy. As a seller, the only info I am giving the buyer is my email address for EMT purposes; if you are concerned that he is somehow going to steal your identity that way, you are not going to ever be comfortable buying and selling online so just quit now.

I've also had a couple cases where the buyer could not meet up for a face-to-face transaction but wanted a friend or relative to receive the gun for him. Splendid, no problem! Send me the money via EMT, and set up the meet. I want the PAL information of the person to whom I will be handing the gun. I verify it, so I know that person is legal...I look at the PAL and compare it to the guy's face when we meet...and then I hand him the gun and shake his hand. Everybody is happy.

But...heavens!...maybe that third party, whom the PAL verification process has determined to be legally entitled to receive the gun, has the actual buyer chained up in his basement with a car battery hooked up to his testicles. He's been forced to send me the money, and the PAL I used to verify the scammer has the picture artfully replaced to match the face of the guy in front of me. Hmmm...maybe I should take a picture of the guy myself, and then send it to the RCMP and then call them to make sure everything is kosher...? Hell, maybe they'll give me a medal or something...

If you want to become a cop and investigate fraud...then do that! If you want to sell a gun legally...then do what's required by law and no more than that; it's enough of a legal PITA as it is without any help making it worse. And if you assume that absolutely every dealing you ever have with another human being is an attempt to scam you and destroy your life...you'd better live in a bubble and cut off all contact...
 
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Potashminer said:
Why would a Seller care about a "shipping address"? - the private Seller's obligation is to verify that the PAL is valid, and that private Seller has done so, and has received payment for the goods. So, where does it say that the private Seller must ALSO verify the shipping address? How is that to be done? For how long is that information going to be retained by the private Seller - where and how? I am not sure it is even a problem if another person pays for the purchase, so long as the PAL checked out. I know I have sent EMT payments, many times, to a particular PAL holder's Mom - and I got the items that I paid for, but not from the Mom. And that PAL holder has received items from me.
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When I called to verify the PAL, they asked for the buyers address and the email the buyer used when he applied for the PAL.
 
mephisto002 said:
I believe most people do the PAL verification online, and the 3 things needed are:
  • Email address
  • DOB
  • PAL number
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I think there is a fourth thing - the PAL holder's full name. And the email address is the one that RCMP have on file for that PAL number - some of us have many email addresses.
 
mephisto002 said:
I believe most people do the PAL verification online, and the 3 things needed are:
  • Email address
  • DOB
  • PAL number
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Agreed. But, that being said, on the RCMP site, when not a face-to-face deal, a pic of the PAL, and a second piece of government issued photo id to compare are to be sent by the buyer. And THAT behind said, when I called in to verify that bit of intel, I was told most people just give the supplied information, get a reference number, and send. Which sounds like they aren’t doing anything but ‘due diligence’ when you phone in for verification.
The way things are changing concerning firearms, nowadays one can’t be too careful. And when someone tries more than once to get the seller to reduce his price, then wants to pay MORE than the seller says he/she will let it go for with shipping, that is a red flag, hence the extra caution…
Thanks for your info;
 
Potashminer said:
I have never "called" to verify a PAL, but I did so many times "on-line". In my case, my home address is different than my mailing address - I am sure many others are in same boat. So which "address" is needed? I do not recall an "address" being part of the required info to verify a PAL on-line.
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When I called to verify the PAL info(no pic of PAL just the info on it) the person I spoke to asked for the email AND address of the buyer. First time I’ve been asked for the mailing address.
Like I say, things seem to change at a moments notice…so I try to practice ‘due diligence’…
 
49Reo said:
When I called to verify the PAL info(no pic of PAL just the info on it) the person I spoke to asked for the email AND address of the buyer. First time I’ve been asked for the mailing address.
Like I say, things seem to change at a moments notice…so I try to practice ‘due diligence’…
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You sure was mailing address? Likely the Address on their PAL or DL.

Like Im losing door to door delivery for CP, so Im going to be using a PO box due to theft conserns of rural and community mail boxes.

So I'll have a different mailing address.
 
OkayShooter said:
You sure was mailing address? Likely the Address on their PAL or DL.

Like Im losing door to door delivery for CP, so Im going to be using a PO box due to theft conserns of rural and community mail boxes.

So I'll have a different mailing address.
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Sorry; the address attached to the PAL.
 
As stated above, you need only 3 items to verify a PAL online: PAL#, DOB, and the email address on file with the RCMP. When you enter that info, they will tell you the name associated with that PAL. It's up to you to confirm the PAL pic but you do not "need" to have the second photo ID scanned and sent to you; it's suggested that is a possible way to confirm it, but a video call or a pic with the buyer holding up his PAL next to his face is sufficient.

I verified a couple of PAL's by phoning in, way back when the current system was in its infancy. I don't remember being asked for anything outside of the three items above. But if they are asking for more info by phone, that's a wonderful reason not to phone! Do it online, give them the bare minimum of what they need, get the transfer reference number, and rest assured that you have done what is legally required. You don't need to keep any records of this; all the info, including the reference number, is contained in the message placed into your RCMP mailbox and kept there. Doing more is not "better"...it's just more.

I'd suggest that you can indeed be too careful when dealing with this stuff. If you're always wondering if you have exceeded the minimum legal requirements by a sufficient margin, you will never be comfortable with selling online. Do what they demand. Once they provide you with the verification message, why do you want more?

It's almost a certainty that the requirements for selling guns privately will continue to become stricter and stricter as time passes. No need to demand tighter restrictions now; they're on the way.

I believe Canada Post has indicated that home deliveries to private residences are a thing of the past, being phased out completely. Oh dear...that means everybody's mailing address and physical address will be different. Dang, we're gonna need a whole bunch of new laws....
 
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I posted my question when, after asking more than once that I drop my price, when I did, he paid more than I was initially asking. That’s a red flag, and THAT is why I was inquiring about it.
 
49reo - There have been 2-3 Qs about 'Feedback' - What's the answer ?
As for the price thing - a few years ago I bought here and asked the seller to lower the price. BUT as I was waiting I noticed he had already 'bumped' with lower prices a couple times, so I 'told him' to forgot my req for a drop and accept my first offer. ALTHO it was NOT for MORE than the asking Price !
As Looky said, maybe he was tipping a few ?
With all your 'verifiations and phone call, I do think you're 'over-thinking' this Tx.
 
remington jim said:
49 Reo !

so NO ? answer to my question ? why ?
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Im still having a hard time figuring out how it can be a scam when your the seller and have had an EMT sent and its deposited in your bank account. If you get scammed , then youve done something not very intelligent. I see your concern but youve done your part to insure the laws been followed. Have a beer or tea and relax. Have a great weekend.
 
I asked a question. You answered. Correct me if I’m wrong, but forums are for seeking answered for the most part. Not getting nasty with the poster for no reason. To answer YOUR question, he does. But a red flag is a red flag; I don’t need YOUR permission to ask if it’s a red flag. It’s obvious by your anger, that you know the person in question; I can respect that, but the animosity to an innocent question is uncalled for.
 
Longstud said:
Im still having a hard time figuring out how it can be a scam when your the seller and have had an EMT sent and its deposited in your bank account. If you get scammed , then youve done something not very intelligent. I see your concern but youve done your part to insure the laws been followed. Have a beer or tea and relax. Have a great weekend.
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People get their accounts drained by ‘outside’ parties all the time; I asked for advice from those who may know a lot more about this stuff that I do; derision and disrespect are not called for. I DO know that people(who are out to scam others) will send too much, then ask for the overpayment back; when it’s sent, their account is drained. I have read about this and been warned of it, which is WHY I posted my original question.
 
Im not quite sure where I was nasty or disrespectful!! I just stated that youve followed legally your responsibilities and that you cant be scammed if the EMT has been deposited UNLESS YOU DO SOMETHING NOT VERY INTELLIGENT. The question you answered wasnt mine but RJs. Didnt realize HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND was being nasty. If you get wound up and bent outah shape for nothing, then maybe forums arent for you!! Some enjoy creating problems over nothing.
 
49Reo said:
So I had a rifle listed. Buyer asked what the best I could do was, I told him the asking price plus shipping. Said he can’t do that. A few days later asked the best I could do; I came down a bit, with shipping, 5 days later he offers MORE than I said I would sell to him shipped. His PAL info (no pic, just the info) verified but got a kind ‘bad’ feeling I may be getting set up for some kind of scam or something. He already sent payment, which is actually overpayment. Couldn’t convince him to just pay what i quoted..
Any ideas, anyone? I’ve never run in to this kind of scenario before…kind of a ‘too good to be true’ thing if you know what I mean…
Tia, all.
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My
Dave_D said:
If moneys good and cleared and in your account. And PAL checked out. Ship it.
You’ve done all you need to do
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I have only sold items / firearms face to face. ( no shipping ) I understand one can do a cod through Canada post when shipping goods. Other than that method how would you buy something on - line and pay for it before receiving it. ? Perhaps does someone read the members reviews and do the transaction on a trust basis .
 
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