AR upper with no forward assist

Hokus Grey said:
That's not very elite, anyone can join..... almost.
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....maybe not elite, but a professional school of instruction....and i bet 3/4 of the mall ninjas here wouldn't make it.....I can see it now, a CGN mall ninja on the firing line forgets to use the FA, the sarge rips him a new one and his/her excuse is the FA is pointless becasue that is what he learned at CGN...
 
matty86suk said:
....maybe not elite, but a professional school of instruction....and i bet 3/4 of the mall ninjas here wouldn't make it.....I can see it now, a CGN mall ninja on the firing line forgets to use the FA, the sarge rips him a new one and his/her excuse is the FA is pointless becasue that is what he learned at CGN...
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+1 Exactly.

hahahhahaahhaha lol....that would go over well..hahhah.
 
JTF2 is a very small part of the Canadian Forces and have done everything in their power to remove themselves from the big Army that retains the paste eaters who just barely pass courses.

Using how they do things to defend how the CF does different things, is like saying you are a pretty good shot because you work with a guy who is a really good shot.

The answer will be following a "Press Check" something the CF does not teach but some small units have adopted.
 
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matty86suk said:
....maybe not elite, but a professional school of instruction....and i bet 3/4 of the mall ninjas here wouldn't make it.....I can see it now, a CGN mall ninja on the firing line forgets to use the FA, the sarge rips him a new one and his/her excuse is the FA is pointless becasue that is what he learned at CGN...
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That's kind of what I was getting at. You can't say you've been there and done that unless you actually have.
 
matty86suk said:
....maybe not elite, but a professional school of instruction....and i bet 3/4 of the mall ninjas here wouldn't make it.....I can see it now, a CGN mall ninja on the firing line forgets to use the FA, the sarge rips him a new one and his/her excuse is the FA is pointless becasue that is what he learned at CGN...
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I have no doubt this would happen...but that is not an argument for the utility of the FA, just an argument for doing what you're told.

But if you're doing what you're told simply because that's what you were told to do...that's not really any better than doing it because you read it on CGN.

At any rate I would hate to be given the task of listing every dumbass thing I've seen somebody do with the excuse "that's what I learned in the army/cadets/junior police volunteers or whatever they're called/justice institute/etc. I would be at it a long time.

So while I have nothing against the forward assist, the fact that the CF teaches you to use it really means nothing in and of itself.
 
Mikjk said:
hahaha!!! :d

Stoner was adamantly against adding the forward assist onto his design, but the US military, in all their wisdom, insisted. The problem with the forward assist is two fold. One has been mentioned that forcing a round into the chamber is a bad idea. The second is that when using the forward assist, there are some who STRIKE the forward assist. It is meant to be pushed, not struck, and if done repeatedly, will cause the small fragile parts that make up the forward assist to break and render the firearm useless until an armourer can get to it.

I know of no of no other rifle with a device specifically made as a forward assist (other than the defunct MSAR) other than AR15 designed firearms. Using the bolt handle as a forward assist (ala AK47 or M14) to force a round in has been known to touch off the round, causing injury to the shooter.

As others have said, the forward assist is not a useful part of the AR15 design.
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"The Air Force and the Marine Corps vehemently objected to this change. The fact was that General Earl Wheeler, the Army's Chief of Staff, had personally ordered the useless handle". Extracted from National Defense by James Fallows, Randon House 1981 .
 
I've used the FA once on my rifle, after I f**ked up a press check and the bolt didn't quite seat. I now do my admin reload by checking the position of the round in the magazine. So the FA came in handy for me, once....
 
Clobbersauras said:
I've used the FA once on my rifle, after I f**ked up a press check and the bolt didn't quite seat. I now do my admin reload by checking the position of the round in the magazine. So the FA came in handy for me, once....
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Thanks Clobbersauras. An excellent example of how a poor method of verifying a loaded chamber validated a one time use of the FA. Somehow, there's still supporters of the FA, I don't get it.

As to Leibermeisters comment about a visual chamber check working in the dark, it doesn't. The key word is DARK. Low light is anything between clear sunny day and dark, so I guess you could say a visual check works. Although, as Clobbersauras posted, there are far better methods that don't induce further malfunctions. And, as Misanthropist posted, the fact the CF or any other unit champions the use of the FA, in no way validates its use. Until the gunfighter program, the CF was still teaching static line, competition style shooting. The Gunfighter program was not born within the ranks, its been adapted from other programs both inside and outside the military communities.

Unless someone can come up with another supportable reason to use the FA, the general consensus still stands. The FA is a waste of materials and time.

TDC
 
TDC said:
Do tell, which professional school of instruction or "elite" unit teaches/preaches or uses the FA?

TDC
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do tell which school taught you not to? I'm more or less with you on not to use it, but if you're going to ask the questions.......

TDC said:
Unless someone can come up with another supportable reason to use the FA, the general consensus still stands. The FA is a waste of materials and time.

TDC
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The general consensus is to actually keep it if you count the posts, so you might want to double check that. Well the posts from the Army people that have used it everyday in crap environments anyways.

Like I said I do agree with you not to use it in general. For this person's intended use, I would also agree its not worth the weight. For military use, I'd rather carry that 1oz of weight for the one time in a million chance I need it. If you need a forward assist, and you have that much dirt/gunk that your bolt just didnt QUITE seat then you'll be needing that forward assist pretty quick.
 
try looking for a Colt AR15 SP1 upper, the older model (1979-1985 ????), there is no FA on these models, I have one of them, still works great, and for the vote, I prefer a AR platform with the FA....................smitty223
 
TinkerBell said:
the same could have been fixed by simply using your thumb in the cutout on the carrier as stoner intended.
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Waaay easier to slap your forward assist then to thumb the cutout in the -30 weather Carbonrod was talking about. Remember what you wear on your hands when it's that cold.

I've also used it in the exact same situation. When you're shooting and it's super cold and you pull back the bolt to ensure there is a round chambered the bolt might not go completly back in the battery because of gummy lubricants.

I've only used it once as described above, but it was during a match (Service rifle match in Febuary about -20) and had I not had the FA I would have at least missed a shot or two screwing around getting a round chambered.
 
TDC said:
Thanks Clobbersauras. An excellent example of how a poor method of verifying a loaded chamber validated a one time use of the FA. Somehow, there's still supporters of the FA, I don't get it.


TDC
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Put on a pair of gloves.
Now feel the top of a magazine, what do you feel? The top of a magazine? sweet that works in no/low light.

With night vision I can see the chambered round when I crack the bolt, the same way I can see the rounds in a magazine. Give it a try.
 
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