AR15 Registered as Receiver Only?

Jäger said:
I overlooked that. Thank you.




As many times as we need to until you get it, it seems. Ed Burlew is on record saying that the 30 day thing is not the loophole gun owners seem to think it is. This can be found in "Chris Anderson Presents: Legal Implications of the Registry Being Gone" from Dec 31 2011. He talks about it from around 37 minutes onwards. He refers specifically to changing a non-restricted to a restricted temporarily and changing it back within the 30 day window, but seeing as the "class change" and "functioning firearm" change fall under the same list of mandated changes to be reported, I don't think you are any less obligated to report the change. You are obviously not in possession of an unregistered restricted, which carries a 3 year sentence. The penalty for having an out-of-date registration certificate in this regard is probably nothing, if anyone does truly care at all.

But according to the conditions on your registration cert, you are obligated to report the change.
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By not informing the registrar of those changes, you have violated a condition on your registration certificate.

110. Every person commits an offence who, without lawful excuse, contravenes a condition of a licence, registration certificate or authorization held by the person.

Punishment

111. Every person who commits an offence under section 110 or who does not comply with section 103

(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
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So lets say, you have a registered reciever and never make a change to it, therefore there is no need to make any report change, ever? Right? Strictly a hypothermical question.
 
Well, Tbloggins, looks like this crap is so darn convoluted that we're going to keep discussing it until it makes sense. Which will be until the law is changed, methinks. Dont get your panties in a knot, now.
 
Tragedy said:
Just dealt with this myself, as soon as a bolt or piece is attached to the lower reciever its no longer a reciever only. Theres a 30day grace period to reregister to whatever barrel length it is and everytime you switch to a diferent length upper you have to notify them. Ive been going to the range all summer,fall and decided to look into it to see if I was legal. Honestly I have no idea why they arent just registered as a semi auto ar15 to solve the barrel length and caliber issue so we can just swap uppers anytime.
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Then what is it? It wouldnt be a complete rifle. I have seen complete lowers being sold from a dealer registered as a receiver. I have seen lowers with a few lower parts, but not all, being sold as receivers. Again, via a dealer. Do you register a receiver and then list what parts are on it?

Since you have just dealt with this, what did they say to you?
 
My rifle was complete so it was registered as an ar15 in my barrel length. Maybe a third category as a reciever for dealers? I was told what I said ... as soon as anything is put onto the lower receiver its no longer a frame/reciever only and I have 30 days to reregister. If they knew what they were talking about or not is another story, but that would go along with what I read burried in the classifications somewhere which is what made me decide to reregister.
 
Yeah, I am pretty sure if you buy a complete lower, with no upper, it will come registered as a frame/receiver only.

Really,all this trouble stems from the fact that when the Firearms Act and the CFC's computer system where created they made no provisions for firearms with interchangeable barrels. None at all that I can find, so we are discussing one of the grayest possible areas right now.
 
Tragedy said:
Just dealt with this myself, as soon as a bolt or piece is attached to the lower receiver its no longer a receiver only. There's a 30day grace period to re-register to whatever barrel length it is and every-time you switch to a different length upper you have to notify them. Ive been going to the range all summer,fall and decided to look into it to see if I was legal. Honestly I have no idea why they aren't just registered as a semi auto ar15 to solve the barrel length and caliber issue so we can just swap uppers anytime.
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Interesting. I called the CFC this week and spoke to Anne in the verification section. She said the receiver is all they care about. As long as it's registered, no issues. I asked about changing from a 14.5 to a 10.5, she said go for it. You do have the option of your reg cert showing 2 different upper barrel lengths, but she said it's not required.

** This had nothing to do with " receiver only " registration. My question was regarding 14.5 to 10.5 change **
 
Mirk said:
Yeah, I am pretty sure if you buy a complete lower, with no upper, it will come registered as a frame/receiver only.

Really,all this trouble stems from the fact that when the Firearms Act and the CFC's computer system where created they made no provisions for firearms with interchangeable barrels. None at all that I can find, so we are discussing one of the grayest possible areas right now.
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Exactly.

So if I put a 20" on it then fire it, send in the registration change, take that off and put a 7.5" on it, send in the change, then on the third day send in a change for a 10", then take them all and sell them, leaving me only the lower, what is it? I'll assume, and that's a big step on this forum because someone always knows more than you, that the last change would be the one that counts. That would be 'frame\ receiver only'.

I got my info from the girl (Deb?) at the CFO office a couple of years ago when I needed a STATT to go to Borden. She said as long as the lower was registered, they couldn't care less what the upper was and faxed my STATT.

Do I have the "CanadianGunNutz' internet seal of approval for no written proof, or taped conversation\ photograph of Wyatt holding my ####? Someone always wants more proof.

People are throwing out supposed podcasts and quoting Ed Burlow, etc, but I haven't seen any links.

Do I satisfy all the Gun Nutz internet barrackroom lawyers that know all the laws and can spout legalities, and imaginary case law til the cows come home, but work as truck drivers or something other than law professionals? No.

Do I care? Not a whole friggin' bunch.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, but I'm not losing sleep over this.

Take my word, or the word of the others. It's the internet.

Opinions are like arseholes............ I've got mine, others have theirs.
 
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I very much appreciate the info in this thread, even if it is repetitive for some members.
Being a newb to these type of rifles it has answered a few questions I had, and provoked a couple more.
Like, so you can buy uppers and not register them. Uppers do not need to be registered, is that correct?
 
I bought a receiver from Dlask about ten years ago and have had at least three different uppers on it. Not a problem so far, and if the man wants my AR that's all they are getting. The receiver. As far as they know, there has never been an upper on the receiver, so why would I give them anything but the receiver?
 
banditos said:
I bought a receiver from Dlask about ten years ago and have had at least three different uppers on it. Not a problem so far, and if the man wants my AR that's all they are getting. The receiver. As far as they know, there has never been an upper on the receiver, so why would I give them anything but the receiver?
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The stripped receiver. No guts, pins or springs, and flattened in a press, with only the number legible.;)
 
So is one obligated to de-register a working rifle to a frame only/receiver within 30 days when they strip a lower back to a frame only?
How about if I decide to change up my trigger group tomorrow? Should I get it de-classified Monday and when I go ahead and put the new trigger in on the weekend, get it re-classified as a working rifle?

Does anyone have any knowledge of someone being convicted or even being charged with an offence based on solely having a completed lower receiver with a registration certificate that said receiver only?
 
tbloggins said:
Exactly.

So if I put a 20" on it then fire it, send in the registration change, take that off and put a 7.5" on it, send in the change, then on the third day send in a change for a 10", then take them all and sell them, leaving me only the lower, what is it? I'll assume, and that's a big step on this forum because someone always knows more than you, that the last change would be the one that counts. That would be 'frame\ receiver only'.

I got my info from the girl (Deb?) at the CFO office a couple of years ago when I needed a STATT to go to Borden. She said as long as the lower was registered, they couldn't care less what the upper was and faxed my STATT.

Do I have the "CanadianGunNutz' internet seal of approval for no written proof, or taped conversation\ photograph of Wyatt holding my ####? Someone always wants more proof.

People are throwing out supposed podcasts and quoting Ed Burlow, etc, but I haven't seen any links.

Do I satisfy all the Gun Nutz internet barrackroom lawyers that know all the laws and can spout legalities, and imaginary case law til the cows come home, but work as truck drivers or something other than law professionals? No.

Do I care? Not a whole friggin' bunch.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, but I'm not losing sleep over this.

Take my word, or the word of the others. It's the internet.

Opinions are like arseholes............ I've got mine, others have theirs.
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Ok, I found the podcast I heard, and the part I was referencing at approx 37:00 has to do with changing a stock on an 8 inch pump shotgun from a full stock to a pistol grip stock, and people under the mistaken idea that they have 30 days to report that change, and that's very wrong, but this is a change from non restricted to restricted, if done properly. This doesn't deal with AR receivers like I thought, so my apologies, it was almost 2 years ago.

Here's the podcast, and it is a must hear for gunowners: h ttp://www.canadianreloadradio.com/crr/00BUCK_TT_3.mp3

Having said all this, the standard conditions on your reg certs does say to report a change when your frame can discharge ammo, so do with that as you will.
 
tbloggins said:
People are throwing out supposed podcasts and quoting Ed Burlow, etc, but I haven't seen any links.
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Well...I did name it, date it, and tell you at what minute it was mentioned...

Jäger said:
Ed Burlew is on record saying that the 30 day thing is not the loophole gun owners seem to think it is. This can be found in "Chris Anderson Presents: Legal Implications of the Registry Being Gone" from Dec 31 2011. He talks about it from around 37 minutes onwards.
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...but Repro77 here went to the trouble of actually finding you a link.

Repro77 said:
Here's the podcast, and it is a must hear for gunowners: h ttp://www.canadianreloadradio.com/crr/00BUCK_TT_3.mp3
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If you ask nicely, I'm sure someone will come over and hit the play button for you too.

I think we all want it to be such that we don't need to phone any of this BS in. I think the condition on the reg cert is pretty clear, AR180shooter cited the legislation telling you it's an offence to violate the condition, and you have one of the most experienced firearms lawyers in Canada telling you it's not the loophole you think it is. Things may be in such a state that it's totally unenforced, and so needless that even the CFO can't be bothered. So carry on at your own risk, it's pretty clear that no one seems to care....until they want to charge you with something, of course.
 
I don't need help pushing buttons. You're answer confirms I seem to be doing fine in that department.

However I'm glad you took the time to jump in and repeat what's already been said, just in case someone missed it.

Cheers.
 
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tbloggins said:
Exactly.

So if I put a 20" on it then fire it, send in the registration change, take that off and put a 7.5" on it, send in the change, then on the third day send in a change for a 10", then take them all and sell them, leaving me only the lower, what is it? I'll assume, and that's a big step on this forum because someone always knows more than you, that the last change would be the one that counts. That would be 'frame\ receiver only'.

I got my info from the girl (Deb?) at the CFO office a couple of years ago when I needed a STATT to go to Borden. She said as long as the lower was registered, they couldn't care less what the upper was and faxed my STATT.

Do I have the "CanadianGunNutz' internet seal of approval for no written proof, or taped conversation\ photograph of Wyatt holding my ####? Someone always wants more proof.

People are throwing out supposed podcasts and quoting Ed Burlow, etc, but I haven't seen any links.

Do I satisfy all the Gun Nutz internet barrackroom lawyers that know all the laws and can spout legalities, and imaginary case law til the cows come home, but work as truck drivers or something other than law professionals? No.

Do I care? Not a whole friggin' bunch.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, but I'm not losing sleep over this.

Take my word, or the word of the others. It's the internet.

Opinions are like arseholes............ I've got mine, others have theirs.
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You don't have to call in all the changes to barrel length as it does not change the firearms legal classification. However, having a functional firearm registered as a frame/receiver only could have serious legal implications. It really depends how zealous/knowledgeable the cop is.
 
So... what does a fully functional lower, without the upper, count as? I understand they register them as frame/receiver only, no? But, technically it is not “only” a “frame/receiver” it would have a functioning trigger in it, buffer, etc. Thus, is it not a fully functional firearm technically, or is it only with the upper on it? Does the 2 seconds it takes to remove the upper seriously turn it into a non-functioning receiver only? If so does that mean every time I take the upper off or put it back on I have to phone the CFO, or do I have a 30 day grace period to do that?

Considering the wording in the Firearms Registration Certificates Regulationsconditions, I would say no upper = not capable of discharging ammo.

4. (1) Subject to section 5, the Registrar shall attach to a registration certificate that is issued in respect of a firearm the condition that the holder of the certificate shall advise the Registrar, within 30 days after the modification, of
...
(b) in the case of a firearm registered as a frame or receiver only, any modification that makes it capable of discharging ammunition;
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My opinion, total f’n grey area… all this and much more when we return next week, same CGN channel, same CGN time…
 
Mirk said:
So... what does a fully functional lower, without the upper, count as? I understand they register them as frame/receiver only, no? But, technically it is not “only” a “frame/receiver” it would have a functioning trigger in it, buffer, etc. Thus, is it not a fully functional firearm technically, or is it only with the upper on it? Does the 2 seconds it takes to remove the upper seriously turn it into a non-functioning receiver only? If so does that mean every time I take the upper off or put it back on I have to phone the CFO, or do I have a 30 day grace period to do that?

Considering the wording in the Firearms Registration Certificates Regulationsconditions, I would say no upper = not capable of discharging ammo.



My opinion, total f’n grey area… all this and much more when we return next week, same CGN channel, same CGN time…
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If you take a bolt out of your firearm, it is no longer capable of discharging ammunition, but is it now a frame/receiver only? No. IMHO as long as you own an upper and a complete lower, it should be registered as a complete firearm. Disassembling a firearm is not the same as making it incapable of discharging ammunition.
 
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