Are older 870's worth more?

[3macs1]

Darn it I missed out on surplus FN rifles that I could shoot in my back yard.

Them side shields on those shooting glasses must really block out a lot if you can't see how many more products and better products are available today then from yesterday.

Not sure what life experience you had where you constancy have to mention higher priced guns then the ones you own and then look down on those that do. Sad really.

I also owned those higher prices guns. Made the full circle and now back to where I started. Did the expensive guns make me a better shot NOPE. Just made me a robot

LOL I remember you now. This butt hurt goes way back to your third post here in 2011 when you attacked me. Back when you told us skeet was DEAD and there was less than 20 skeet shooters in alberta LOL

Take care I am done for sure now. Seems you were playing then with me also
My post from the PAST

Sorry but your welcome to the form was well over a year ago jan 2010 with two posts until today.
That is normally a troll.
If not my apologies and welcome. I would say the same to you face to face I don't hide behind anything and if you knew me you would quickly see why.
There are only two things that scare me in life one is the oilman when he comes and the other is the gas pump. take care

 

[the spank]

I am starting to get the feeling a few of these old remingtons kicked your ass back in the day
Remember one thing the stick didnot make the shooter with your fancy guns
Nothing I loved more was proving that
Cheers

My referencing 1950 is the general timeframe for the downturn in quality firearms manufacturing Remington brought to the firearms industry and has continued on from that time onward. It has less to do with a particular model and more to do with my disdain for Remington. Yes I have shot and owned several Remingtons and still own one to this day but I really don’t like what they did to the industry as a whole and really shake my head at what they put out today.

 

[3macs1]

My referencing 1950 is the general timeframe for the downturn in quality firearms manufacturing Remington brought to the firearms industry and has continued on from that time onward. It has less to do with a particular model and more to do with my disdain for Remington. Yes I have shot and owned several Remingtons and still own one to this day but I really don’t like what they did to the industry as a whole and really shake my head at what they put out today.

Understand Spank but really they had no choice it was either change or die since the public no longer would pay for quality it seemed
I agree 100% where we are today is sad
Cheers

 

[JIMMY 808]

I also owned those higher prices guns. Made the full circle and now back to where I started. Did the expensive guns make me a better shot NOPE. Just made me a robot

LOL I remember you now. This butt hurt goes way back to your third post here in 2010. Back when you told us skeet was DEAD and there was less than 20 skeet shooters in alberta LOL

Take care I am done for sure now. Remember you were playing then with me also

Sorry but your welcome to the form was well over a year ago jan 2010 with two posts until today.
That is normally a troll.
If not my apologies and welcome. I would say the same to you face to face I don't hide behind anything and if you knew me you would quickly see why.
There are only two things that scare me in life one is the oilman when he comes and the other is the gas pump. take care

You think there was 20 skeet shooters at the 2017 Alberta provincial this year either? Not sure why I asked you a question your done with me.


Oh well, look forward to the next 870 thread maybe once in the 60s sum son ##### parked in your spot at the club and had a _______. You can insert whatever your jealous of that day there.

 

[.22LRGUY]

You think there was 20 skeet shooters at the 2017 Alberta provincial this year either? Not sure why I asked you a question your done with me.


Oh well, look forward to the next 870 thread maybe once in the 60s sum son ##### parked in your spot at the club and had a _______. You can insert whatever your jealous of that day there.

^I think you should look up the word "antagonize", then consider that before posting anything, ever. As a shooter pushing 50 years old myself, and, having run old Remington shotguns for over 30 years, I ALWAYS enjoy reading what 3macs1 has to offer on any Remington-related topic. It seems all fact-based/experienced-based..and I've always found that to be a very valuable resource here on CGN. Is older, better? Up to you to decide, but just poking a guy about his age..and when most of his shooting was probably done as a younger man=just makes you look like a knob.

 

[JIMMY 808]

^I think you should look up the word "antagonize", then consider that before posting anything, ever. As a shooter pushing 50 years old myself, and, having run old Remington shotguns for over 30 years, I ALWAYS enjoy reading what 3macs1 has to offer on any Remington-related topic. It seems all fact-based/experienced-based..and I've always found that to be a very valuable resource here on CGN. Is older, better? Up to you to decide, but just poking a guy about his age..and when most of his shooting was probably done as a younger man=just makes you look like a knob.

I suppose.

But if anyone with a K gun or P gun looked down on an 870 shooter the world would almost end.

 

[.22LRGUY]

I suppose.

But if anyone with a K gun or P gun looked down on an 870 shooter the world would almost end.

^lol...I doubt it, but I get your meaning. I only recently got my first O/U (20ga Citori) and until I had any real time with it, I thought O/Us were antiquated guns for old guys. Maybe I was right...because I love that gun, and I'm getting there. Whatever the case, I don't shoot at clubs often anymore...but last time there, my 6'4" son (shooting a 20ga "youth" 870 Express) out-shot the fellow to his left shooting a "K" gun that presumably fit him better than this short LOP express did my son. He didn't notice that the "K" gun guy sort of smirked when he looked over and saw a $375 Express to his right. My son had no idea that every other gun on the line cost significantly more, but did notice he was shooting almost as well as the best guy...but definitely better than some of the others.

At the end of the day, the elitism I've seen at some local clubs is to me..the only ugly thing about the sport. If it matters to a shooter that his gear is more expensive than the guy next to him, I think there are some screwed-up priorities at play. Most people I know buy the best they can afford, so if a guy beside you has a lesser gun.....don't assume he can afford better...or that you can shoot better than he can!

 

[saskcop]

I always hear of people claiming 870's from the 90's and earlier are built better and are more reliable than newer models as quality has apparently went down the tubes. I'm wondering if I should list it at the same price newer guns are being sold for, less because it's older, or more because it's apparently better quality. Just looking to maximize my return (this gun was a trade) and list it for the right price.


Are they really better and does this justify a higher price?

Not sure if they justify the higher prices in most cases, but it is hard to argue with the quality levels of the older Wingmasters. They were fine pump shotties and if you have one, you have a good thing.

 

[3macs1]

I suppose.

But if anyone with a K gun or P gun looked down on an 870 shooter the world would almost end.

LOL I am sorry but I had to respond one more time
Guess who owned both K and P guns and guess what many of those owners do to those without them. They look down their nose all the time
Like I SAID MADE THE FULL CIRCLE
Don't believe that walk to a stand at a new club with an old 870 pump today or even 25 years ago even better a 870 in 28ga my favorite and watch the giggles and looks
They are not laughing after 25 birds
Cheers
Here you go. Look who told the OP what this trigger was. The old 870 owner. How did he know that EASY since he owned these higher end guns too and not just one, rem 32, k-32 then finished with a k80, plus mx8's
Like I said earlier the stick doesn't make the shooter

I see a guy now with a P or K I say so what, I see an old guy step up with a model 12 or 870 I say I think someone is going to get a lesson in shooting today

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1648442-Please-delete

 

[madtrapper143]

I remember years ago at a Ducks Unlimited event in north west Ontario. The event started with a few rounds of TRAP and some Sporting Clays for just for fun. The round I shot consisted of 870's 1100's model 12's and a smattering of Mossberg 500's and Ithaca 37's. None were target guns as most of us at the dinner were hunters not competitive shooters. My gun was likely the most expensive at the shoot among the hunters. It was a Japanese Browning AUTO 5 in 16 gauge. (I did not do great I remember that) But the part I remember clearly was that when the shoot began the regular club members who had been outside watching the event just up and walked away to the club house. The gentlemen who worked for DU organizing the event (also a member of the club) apologized for the behavior prior to the dinner. Most of us had no idea what had happened but the DU gent knew the members walked away because watching the duck hunters shoot was not worth their time. I was not insulted or ashamed but I had to wonder why us shooters can't stick together better. Afterwards the DU gent said it was fun hearing the curmudgeons complain about "blankity blank" shooter who left 16 bore hulls among the 12 bore pick ups on the field. I guess some extra sorting had to be done. It was interesting to note that the bunch of duck hunters did well on sporting clays full chokes and all.

Darryl

 

[MD]

I had a 1957 Wingmaster in 2 3/4" inch I got at a gun show and started waterfowling with that when my wife encouraged me to go shoot some ducks when I was whining that hunting season was over when deer closed.

The action was nice and slick, but it had a fixed full choke I had opened up to modified and got hunting with it, but finally I decided I wanted the option of choke tubes and 3" shells.

Found an Express on here for a very fair price from Weimajack and I have never regretted it. Doing a bit of date of manufacture research I found that it was an early one from 1984. Works just fine. I think I had a bit of a burr in it one time and it wouldn't eject. Took it to Reliable and Shane fixed that in a few minutes. No charge.

As far as I can tell mine doesn't have that "turns orange in the mist" problem, the action is slick now and it is all good except that the cheap birch (or whatever) butt stock will probably have to be replaced eventually, but I keep it dosed up with floor wax. I treat the metal parts liberally with Fluid Film too with no rust issues.
Would I like to have an actual 870 Wingmaster with tubes and 3" chamber? sure, but I don't need too.

 

[FarmerDanz]

Good thread. Full cicrle! Im leaving with a smile.

 

[Rocket Surgery]

Who lives in the past. Not me.Is it a crime to talk about it
Unless you own a gun shop as my dad did.I don't care of you live to 100 you will never experience what I have with guns in my life time, nor will you ever own or shoot the vast amounts or manufacturers I have
In fact I feel sorry for young guys today especially when we talk guns, you cannot even own today what I shot legally in my back yard, try walking down the street with your shotgun over your shoulder, or buying your ammo at the local candy store, taking your shotgun to school and no one even looks at you, ordering parts by mail from the US and no issues or itar. I can go on and on. If they are not the good old days I don't know what is
Overall the stage of firearm ownership today is quite sad and it is not going to get any better. Too bad you would have had to live it in the past to fully understand what we have lost over the last 50-60 years and more to come IMO
Cheers

Yeah it's true, you guys had it better back then without internet gun sales or access to reviews and forums.

 

[Ironheart]

If it's got the metal trigger guard that originally came with the shotty and the price is right I'm good to go when browsing gun shows and the time is limited

 

[3macs1]

Yeah it's true, you guys had it better back then without internet gun sales or access to reviews and forums.

We did for sure too bad some don't know it. Bought all my guns face to face private sales or from about 20 mom and pop shops around my home. Our reviews was seeing them, using others many times first with reviews from people you knew and trusted
Not like the pure BS posted on the internet in many cases
No worries of sending an emt and getting burned. You handed cash to the seller and held exactly what you were getting, no worries with canada post shipping it etc etc
There was life before the internet
Cheers

 

[Ilove12gshotguns]

I will chime in with my 2 cents...

I just bought a new Remingtom 870 police magnum that got in the mail yesterday, then hit the range. I was a little worried about the QC as the Express models have suffered huge. The Police models have not, in fact its hard to imagine this thing getting any better for your money.

I had a Browning BPS with a short barrel for years for camp duty, and it served me well. They are not really designed with "defence" in mind, with no side port its hard to do quick reloads. I always thought Browning had the cake for QC, but nah, not really. These new police models are just as good, and from what ive handled from the "Wingmasters" they are great too.

Its super fustrating, as i have gone to local gun shows with cash in hand looking for a project 870 before. You always get the same "old farts" saying the same sh%t,

"They dont make um like this anymore"
"These are getting hard to find"

But they are wrong.... SO wrong. The new ones are just as good, if not better on account of new modern steel, heat treat, better materials. They are not hard to find, they sitting right there on your local gunshop selves. Just dont ever tell them that, they will get all red in the face.

I price them by taking there current value new i.e $1000 for a wingmaster and subtracting %25 for being used. Then start subtracting for general condition, and any features it lacks from the current models.

when you see a 1970 wingmaster for $500 and it has a 2 3/4 chamber and fixed full choke, with a crap ton of handling marks, slight rusting, and 48 years of use of god knows what. They are not worth a salt.

Wont take modern high speed steel loads
Wont present as well as a new gun
Its old and worn out
Stuck with the choke its got
3" loads? Not a chance
And sometimes you might get the surpise
"that crack wasnt there when i sold it to you."

The term "they dont make like this anymore" is rubbish. They are worth no more then $250.

If you can find a old wingmaster in 3" with removable chokes, thats been taken care of nicely. Yes they are worth around the 650-750 mark. If its lacking any of these features, then its just kind of outdated and useless.

Just for dont ever buy a new "Express" model. They truely have suffered.

The cost difference between the Express and wingmasters are huge currently at 450 and 1000, and the QC actuallt represents that.

 

[Jonny5]

LOL I am sorry but I had to respond one more time
Guess who owned both K and P guns and guess what many of those owners do to those without them. They look down their nose all the time
Like I SAID MADE THE FULL CIRCLE
Don't believe that walk to a stand at a new club with an old 870 pump today or even 25 years ago even better a 870 in 28ga my favorite and watch the giggles and looks
They are not laughing after 25 birds
Cheers
Here you go. Look who told the OP what this trigger was. The old 870 owner. How did he know that EASY since he owned these higher end guns too and not just one, rem 32, k-32 then finished with a k80, plus mx8's
Like I said earlier the stick doesn't make the shooter

I see a guy now with a P or K I say so what, I see an old guy step up with a model 12 or 870 I say I think someone is going to get a lesson in shooting today

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1648442-Please-delete

So you sold off your K & P guns to buy a 870?

 

[3macs1]

So you sold off your K & P guns to buy a 870?

Nope I sold off my K & P guns when I stopped shooting seriously and some made offers on them.
Got tired of being a robot on a stand and missing 2-4 birds out of 100 and loing all the time
I had over 20 870's at that time and still have most of them. I never sold the 870's I bought in the 60's to shoot skeet and trap with and still have them so started using them again for fun shooting
It is fun now a lot of it. Try 16yard trap some day with a 28ga 870 some 7 1/2 AA and full choke barrel and watch the looks when you break 23 or better
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

I will chime in with my 2 cents...

I just bought a new Remingtom 870 police magnum and got in the mail yesterday, then hit the range. I was a little worried about the QC as the Express models have suffered huge. The Police models have not, in fact its hard to imagine this thing getting any better for your money.

I had a Browning BPS with a short barrel for years for camp duty, and it served me well. They are not really designed with "defence" in mind, with no side port its hard to do quick reloads. I always thought Browning had the cake for QC, but nah, not really. These new police models are just as good, and from what ive handled from the "Wingmasters" they are great too.

Its super fustrating, as i have gone to local gun shows with cash in hand looking for a project 870 before. You always get the same "old farts" saying the same sh%t,

"They dont make um like this anymore"
"These are getting hard to find"

But they are wrong.... SO wrong. The new ones are just as good, if not better on account of new modern steel, heat treat, better materials. They are not hard to find, they sitting right there on your local gunshop selves. Just dont ever tell them that, they will get all red in the face.

I price them by taking there current value new i.e $1000 for a wingmaster and subtracting %25 for being used. Then start subtracting for general condition, and any features it lacks from the current models.

when you see a 1970 wingmaster for $500 and it has a 2 3/4 chamber and fixed full choke, with a crap ton of handling marks, slight rusting, and 48 years of use of god knows what. They are not worth a salt.

Wont take modern high speed steel loads
Wont present as well as a new gun
Its old and worn out
Stuck with the choke its got
3" loads? Not a chance
And sometimes you might get the surpise
"that crack wasnt there when i sold it to you."

The term "they dont make like this anymore" is rubbish. They are worth no more then $250.

That is real good to hear and thanks for your post. As I said earlier my newest wingmaster is a 2005 and that is a fine gun but I had no idea how the quality was after 2005.
Police models were always the best of the best
Enjoy your new gun
Cheers

 

[Jonny5]

Nope I sold off my K & P guns when I stopped shooting seriously and some made offers on them.
Got tired of being a robot on a stand and missing 2-4 birds out of 100 and loing all the time
I had over 20 870's at that time and still have most of them. I never sold the 870's I bought in the 60's to shoot skeet and trap with and still have them so started using them again for fun shooting
It is fun now a lot of it. Try 16yard trap some day with a 28ga 870 some 7 1/2 AA and full choke barrel and watch the looks when you break 23 or better
Cheers

Interesting, what possessed you own have over 20 870's? To me that's like saying I have a Ferrari, Lambo and a Range Rover, but I keep a shop full of Datsun's in the back 40, I can't wrap my head around it.