argh,.bad ideas at GLobal Village

While the idea of a "production" division is a worthy cause I would suggest a large amount of those responsible for creating it knew we would be where we are now...
The division needs a larger rethink, this sport attracts tinkerers so you can't expect an equipment race not to take place (not to mention the money manufacturers can make from small rule changes).
I would suggest to embrace the race and rethink the rules to ensure the playing field is enforceable by match officials.
Something like first trigger pull weight = x, fits in a box with mag and power factor. No scope/dot and no comp, etc...
Then IPSC should provide (for sale of coarse) an official box and an official devise to test trigger weight.
Lets face it;
-All guns are "production" in any division with few exceptions.
-This is an expensive sport, the division has little effect on the cost.
-Every sport has a platform with a distinct advantage for a period of time, Drag racing & Nascar had the hemi, SuperBike had the 916, but eventually even the best mouse trap gets improved by someone else.
-We're guys and we want to screw with it.
-There are other things they could do to create a level playing field if need be. thinking outside the box would suggest if the DA/SA guns are such an advantage perhaps they need a different power factor (140?,150?,160?170?) without a scoring advantage. I'm sure many other possibilities exist without punishing the gun owner who already bought thier gun and are competing now (didn't we learn from the 1911 BS).

Face it, does it really make a difference if a guy polishes his slide (or even blues it...), how does a barrel with cut riffling give a Glock an advantage (really), so the guy swaps a few springs so it will run, who really cares and more importantly how do you police it all??
Change it to DA division
Simplify the rules and ditch the approved list.
Make it easily enforceable and watch it thrive.
Heck, I might even go back to it...
 
If a shovel is the best tool for the job, why create rules to force everyone to use a fork? Especially when shovels are readily available off-the-shelf, and are plentiful. If there's truly not enough diversity, maybe the other manufacturers should strive to build a better gun :stirthepot2:

This is like NASCAR when Dodge introduced those ugly 'aerodynamic' noses on their cars, and NASCAR decided to draw a line in the sand. I ask you, do the current 'stock' cars look stock to you? The choice to be made is, do we hold everyone back to a previous standard, or do we allow the sport to evolve as the technology that goes into the equipment evolves, thus encouraging better offerings from the equipment-makers?
 
Zips up Kevlar/Nomex suit.

I am a big fan of the K.I.S.S idea when it comes to rules. But, I have to say that if they do this right I like the idea. cou: Production is turning in to Std. minor with a DA first shot. When you can buy your pistol as a big box of parts and put it together in your basement (CZ) or order the "options" you want and have the manufacturer build it to your specs (Sphinx) Is that really a production gun?
 
Didn't we have a list of *approved* Production guns? Whichever the criteria it was, both Sphinx and CZ are approved as far as I know.
 
sThe sad thing is,...(and I don't shoot a CZ),...the guns and parts are approved already. IN order to get on the production gun list, the very same people are heading this move to change the SA trigger weight, ALSO approved the guns and parts for the production list and rules!!

There is no reasoning for it. Lower the DA for striker fired guns to 4lbs,..guess what, there will be those who put in that special part to lower the glock trigger. Not a lot,..but some, and if they are just above the 4lb mark...they are good to go!?

Right now,...Tanfoglio is coming out with new trigger system...what if that is below the 3lb SA trigger limit after a few thousand rounds?
It is so ridiculous....it gets my blood pressure up.
 
Right now,...Tanfoglio is coming out with new trigger system...what if that is below the 3lb SA trigger limit after a few thousand rounds?
It is so ridiculous....it gets my blood pressure up.

The same thing that all the Glock, M&P and XD shooters will have to do when there triggers wear in to under 5lb. You buy new parts.
 
I guess they should leave there triggers alone and stop putting in aftermarket disconnectors. I have talked to Glock shooters,...it should stay above the KNOWN DA trigger weight if they don't mess with it (ya know,...the 5lb trigger weight that has been around for a long time)....where there has NEVER been a SA trigger weight minimum. They choose that gun, I choose the other.

Actually, i THINK the thought is leaning to letting the 4lb DA trigger, but putting SA at 2lbs; IMHO,..not needed,....just leave it alone....nothing is broken. They should adopt USPSA production rules.
 
The same thing that all the Glock, M&P and XD shooters will have to do when there triggers wear in to under 5lb. You buy new parts.

and? Your point is what? The DA trigger pull weight has been in the rule book for a few years. They buy the gun, they know the weight not to go under with factory parts.
CZ owners have been told the rules, they use OEM parts to get better DA and SA triggers, ...but all the sudden this is no longer acceptable? According to who?


but lets put this to reason.....we should ALL have to buy new parts? Do you think that is a good thing?
 
The same thing that all the Glock, M&P and XD shooters will have to do when there triggers wear in to under 5lb. You buy new parts.

I am not even sure what part you'll have to buy to make SA trigger heavier. The only thing is the rebound spring, but it is not meant to hold certain weight, it only meant to bring the trigger back. This is by design of SA action.
 
I guess they should leave there triggers alone and stop putting in aftermarket disconnectors. I have talked to Glock shooters,...it should stay above the KNOWN DA trigger weight if they don't mess with it (ya know,...the 5lb trigger weight that has been around for a long time)....where there has NEVER been a SA trigger weight minimum. They choose that gun, I choose the other.

Actually, i THINK the thought is leaning to letting the 4lb DA trigger, but putting SA at 2lbs; IMHO,..not needed,....just leave it alone....nothing is broken. They should adopt USPSA production rules.

and? Your point is what? The DA trigger pull weight has been in the rule book for a few years. They buy the gun, they know the weight not to go under with factory parts.
CZ owners have been told the rules, they use OEM parts to get better DA and SA triggers, ...but all the sudden this is no longer acceptable? According to who?


but lets put this to reason.....we should ALL have to buy new parts? Do you think that is a good thing?


I guess you could always put you factory stock parts back in. cou:
 
I doubt this idea will become a rule.

I became interested in production division as an entry division to get into IPSC. The trend towards essentially custom pistols (mail order parts etc...) definitely discourages new shooters from getting involved.

I'm not sure I like the proposed rule, but I do agree that production has turned from 'any duty gun will do' to 'you need a shadow/stock2'. Face it, one of the only reasons people go for the Shadow is because of the special 'oem' parts. Bringing the focus back to actual duty/stock guns is ok by me.

If you want a 2lb SA pull on your gun, why not shoot STD div?
 
what are these "special" OEM parts? you mean the parts actually made by the manufacturer which provide a better trigger? Kind of like the ones Glock makes for their guns? Our guns make the current 5lb trigger pull, with factory parts, just because some manufacturers decided to actually make better products doesn't mean we should make rules that exclude them. the other makers can simply catch up or go home. IPSC should not be making rules to help with margins or market share.
And Rob (Elliot), Vince has a proposal to make Open scored in Minor only. Not a joke.

I doubt this idea will become a rule.

I became interested in production division as an entry division to get into IPSC. The trend towards essentially custom pistols (mail order parts etc...) definitely discourages new shooters from getting involved.

I'm not sure I like the proposed rule, but I do agree that production has turned from 'any duty gun will do' to 'you need a shadow/stock2'. Face it, one of the only reasons people go for the Shadow is because of the special 'oem' parts. Bringing the focus back to actual duty/stock guns is ok by me.

If you want a 2lb SA pull on your gun, why not shoot STD div?
 
Back
Top Bottom