Asc mags

The last say on anything firearms related, comes from the RCMP Firearms Technical Unit. As others have mentioned, getting them to put something in writing is a pain in the ass. I had them respond to email regarding the magazine capacity of a Benelli M4, giving me the go ahead to modify a full length tube to 5.9 rounds of 3", which results in a legal capacity of 6+1+1 of 2-3/4". It was like pulling teeth to get them to respond.

If these magazines were illegal, CBSA would not have let them through. Every firearm related shipment is checked, and if it's questionable, it's held and investigated. In this case, in order to understand the law, you need to understand what the term "manufactured" means. If this was some joe blow across the boarder taking off the shelf 30 rnd USGI mags and printing "Pistol Mag" on the side, then there is an issue. If the magazine is purpose built as a pistol mag, regardless of the length of the body, it is legally allowed to hold 10 rounds of the calibre it is designed for.

For all those who disagree, please explain how you can be so certain that the manufacturer ASC has not specifically made a run of magazines for the LAR 15 pistol with a full size body. Moreover, where does it state in the regulations (or any legal document) that what a magazine was designed for, has anything to do with the length of the magazine?
 
angryeyebrows said:
The last say on anything firearms related, comes from the RCMP Firearms Technical Unit. As others have mentioned, getting them to put something in writing is a pain in the ass. I had them respond to email regarding the magazine capacity of a Benelli M4, giving me the go ahead to modify a full length tube to 5.9 rounds of 3", which results in a legal capacity of 6+1+1 of 2-3/4". It was like pulling teeth to get them to respond.

If these magazines were illegal, CBSA would not have let them through. Every firearm related shipment is checked, and if it's questionable, it's held and investigated. In this case, in order to understand the law, you need to understand what the term "manufactured" means. If this was some joe blow across the boarder taking off the shelf 30 rnd USGI mags and printing "Pistol Mag" on the side, then there is an issue. If the magazine is purpose built as a pistol mag, regardless of the length of the body, it is legally allowed to hold 10 rounds of the calibre it is designed for.

For all those who disagree, please explain how you can be so certain that the manufacturer ASC has not specifically made a run of magazines for the LAR 15 pistol with a full size body. Moreover, where does it state in the regulations (or any legal document) that what a magazine was designed for, has anything to do with the length of the magazine?
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Difference is, these guys just did it and didn't ask....many other dealers asked if there would be an issue with pinned 10/30 rounders marked as pistol mags, it's the cheapest way to make em....mags are $5 US, get them pinned, make a bunch of money. RCMP wouldn't go for it. Said they had to be newly designed mags...for the pistol versions. Do you really think nobody has tried this before?
Real gunshops/dealers/importers follow the letter of the law, seek RCMP approval before dumping $10's of thousands of dollars on an item to import, they have a lot to lose. At the end of the day, YOU are responsible for the items in your posession....if you want a real legal answer ask the RCMP.
I'm starting to think OP is a shill for these guys....same area, asks everyone except the RCMP if they are good to go....just looking at the crap website and grossly overpriced garbage they have at PPP I can't imagine anyone giving them money....lol
 
Im a shill. Lol. Did u miss your medication this morning? I have been on the forum way before pistol mag were invented
 
Hitzy said:
Difference is, these guys just did it and didn't ask....many other dealers asked if there would be an issue with pinned 10/30 rounders marked as pistol mags, it's the cheapest way to make em....mags are $5 US, get them pinned, make a bunch of money. RCMP wouldn't go for it. Said they had to be newly designed mags...for the pistol versions. Do you really think nobody has tried this before?
Real gunshops/dealers/importers follow the letter of the law, seek RCMP approval before dumping $10's of thousands of dollars on an item to import, they have a lot to lose. At the end of the day, YOU are responsible for the items in your posession....if you want a real legal answer ask the RCMP.
I'm starting to think OP is a shill for these guys....same area, asks everyone except the RCMP if they are good to go....just looking at the crap website and grossly overpriced garbage they have at PPP I can't imagine anyone giving them money....lol
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You completely ignored my question. How do you know that ASC did not make a batch of 30 round LAR15 pistol mags and then modify them for sale in Canada?

I agree that as a business the wise thing to do is seek approval from the RCMP prior to investing money, but there is no law saying that the RCMP need to approve anything. As long as the product complies, they don't need to be involved at all.
 
I did answer it....this has been tried and presented to the RCMP and they did not like it. So someone does it without inquiring....so what does that mean to you when you get pinched with one? I have way too much money and time invested to lose my #### over a stupid grossly overpriced mag.
Ask the RCMP...simple as that. No point going in circles.... If you are interested in obtaining these mags and want to know the legality ask the folks that matter.
 
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If I wanted to see someone go to jail, I suppose I could go to JM (the RCMP firearms officer in Victoria) and hand him one of these mags and tell him who I got it from - anyone up for me doing that? - I certainly hope not. That's the only reason I can think of that these haven't been dealt with yet - no one wants to see anyone go to jail (including JM)
 
Like I said if rcmp had a grip on these, they would never made it in. Just like the aia 10rnd riffle mags that canada ammo tried to bring in
 
sky52 said:
Like I said if rcmp had a grip on these, they would never made it in. Just like the aia 10rnd riffle mags that canada ammo tried to bring in
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So you are afraid to ask the RCMP? I mean since you are sooo sure these are fine and all...why not get solid proof one way or the other?
 
enefgee said:
The problem with these mags is that they aren't specifically a "pistol length" magazine - they are the same body size as a rifle magazine, so essentially they're a rifle mag pinned to 10, which is a no no. If they were any other length you could argue, they aren't so you can't. Look at the RRA mags, no other pre-existing mag body is the same length - ditto the ATR mags, just slightly different than a pre-existing rifle length mag. Confusion arises from the fact that the maker has labelled them as a pistol mag - makes no difference in the US, then again lots of things make no difference in the US - you can label an Arsenal AK a Valmet 78 in the US, doesn't make it a Valmet
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Since when does the lenght of a given magazine defines it's legality in Canada, be it a pistol or rifle magazine?!

I want to see the article and section of the CC that covers this specific aspect.
 
Tell you what, since nobody has the balls to ask the RCMP I'll do it......
However, since some of you folks are so positive these mags are not rifle mags being marketed and sold as pistol mags, then there is really no need for me to share the reply with you as you already made up your mind they are GTG.....
 
The magazine has to be a "unique to a pistol magazine" otherwise it's a dual purpose magazine, dual purpose mags are restricted to the lower legal capacity. Taking a standard rifle mag body, painting "This is a pistol mag, Dude" on it and pinning it to 10 doesn't cut it. Of the ways that exist to make a magazine unique to a pistol, length is the only one that is practical to manipulate; you can't make it wider, you can't make the mag deeper from nose to base - so in order to make it unique to a pistol.........
 
enefgee said:
The magazine has to be a "unique to a pistol magazine" otherwise it's a dual purpose magazine, dual purpose mags are restricted to the lower legal capacity. Taking a standard rifle mag body, painting "This is a pistol mag, Dude" on it and pinning it to 10 doesn't cut it. Of the ways that exist to make a magazine unique to a pistol, length is the only one that is practical to manipulate; you can't make it wider, you can't make the mag deeper from nose to base - so in order to make it unique to a pistol.........
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Again, I ask for the actual article and section of the CC that states "unique to a pistol magazine".

I'm asking you to provide facts, references to legal black-on-white books.

FYI - I'm not trying to argue only for the sake of argument. I like factual information, not he-said she-said the RCMP-may-see-it-this-way opinion.

..but using your opinion & analysis would render the ATRS AT-15 pistol mag illegal as its
a) longer than "pistol mag should be",
b) although it's sonically welded & one would destroy it by opening it it's still "pinned" and,
c) it's wider than a RRA mag

...and the RCMP approved them no problem didn't they?
 
Hitzy said:
Tell you what, since nobody has the balls to ask the RCMP I'll do it......
However, since some of you folks are so positive these mags are not rifle mags being marketed and sold as pistol mags, then there is really no need for me to share the reply with you as you already made up your mind they are GTG.....
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LOL! No need to get so emotional. The email you want is firearmident@rcmp-grc.gc.ca. If you come back with a written response that says these mags are specifically a no-go, I concede the debate and you are the king of the internet!
 
Hitzy said:
Tell you what, since nobody has the balls to ask the RCMP I'll do it......
However, since some of you folks are so positive these mags are not rifle mags being marketed and sold as pistol mags, then there is really no need for me to share the reply with you as you already made up your mind they are GTG.....
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Is there really a need for this self-righteous BS?
 
BenL said:
Is there really a need for this self-righteous BS?
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This isn't the first time it's been discussed.
If you know they are legit, what's it matter if someone else might know otherwise? Your mind is made up....doesn't matter what anyone else thinks or knows about the subject. Maybe you will get lucky and get to explain your reasoning and understanding of the laws to a judge..... Me, I'm not prepared to go down that road.....
 
OK, if these are legal at 10 rounds, why does Questar (the originator of the 10 round pistol mag for the AR in Canada) sell them like this?

https://shopquestar.com/shopping65/shopexd.asp?id=2374&bc=no

Additionally the regs state as follows:

3. (1) Any cartridge magazine

(a) that is capable of containing more than five cartridges of the type for which the magazine was originally designed (emphasis mine) and that is designed or manufactured for use in

(i) a semi-automatic handgun that is not commonly available in Canada,

(ii) a semi-automatic firearm other than a semi-automatic handgun,


The 30 round flavour of AR15 FOW magazines were initially produced in the 1960's - long before any AR15 pistol was available anywhere. This magazine is described by it's physical characteristics - length, width and depth as well as by it's capacity - which necessitates the measurements. The fact that these particular 30 round sized boxes were supposedly designed for pistols is irrelevant since the original box of those physical dimensions was designed for rifles.
 
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BenL said:
Again, I ask for the actual article and section of the CC that states "unique to a pistol magazine".

I'm asking you to provide facts, references to legal black-on-white books.

FYI - I'm not trying to argue only for the sake of argument. I like factual information, not he-said she-said the RCMP-may-see-it-this-way opinion.

..but using your opinion & analysis would render the ATRS AT-15 pistol mag illegal as its
a) longer than "pistol mag should be",
b) although it's sonically welded & one would destroy it by opening it it's still "pinned" and,
c) it's wider than a RRA mag

...and the RCMP approved them no problem didn't they?
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Originally designed for a pistol ie unique in it's physical description, (and different from another -rifle- magazine's physical description) to a pistol, by the manufacturer of a pistol. ATRS is the maker of the pistol and they designed a new magazine specifically for their pistol - so yeah, no problem.
 
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enefgee said:
OK, if these are legal at 10 rounds, why does Questar (the originator of the 10 round pistol mag for the AR in Canada) sell them like this?
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Why???

Economics 101 bud.

Why would they pay for a manufacturer to produce a mag that'll be use to half it's capacity and then flip the bill to the consumer when you can produce it at a lesser cost, thus selling it for cheaper??
 
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