Assault Rifles For Hunters = "Terrorist Rifles" - Jim Zumbo Blog

[tootall]

For anyone that wants to forgive Zumbo & give him a second chance, here's a link to a petition you can sign.
http://www.petitiononline.com/JZ12550/petition.html

I had a look at the site.
Only 140 names so far, and a lot of them are NOT in favour of bringing him back.

This one was on page 2

I was at a hunting & outdoors show Mr. Zumbo attended several years ago with my daddy... when daddy wasnt looking Zumbo touched me in the bad places.

 

[rollingrock]

Hiking up to the goat mountains and then using a marginal cartridge like 7.62x39 on a goat seems like a recipe for disappointment and wasted effort.

I knew some would get upset. But last time I checked I was handloading 7.62x54 and shootint it with iron sight, how does that sound?Another military assault rifle. Cost me what? 200 bucks, cheap enough to upset some experts here.

 

[Foxer]

I knew some would get upset.

Then don't do it. I'm sick of your trolling. Seriously - knock it off.

I still think it's a little silly to take a shorter range cartridge like the 7.62 russian hunting goat - but at least it's a real hunting cartridge. It'll do for moose.

 

[rollingrock]

Then don't do it. I'm sick of your trolling. Seriously - knock it off.

I still think it's a little silly to take a shorter range cartridge like the 7.62 russian hunting goat - but at least it's a real hunting cartridge. It'll do for moose.

7.62 Russian is at par with 30-06, and you call it a shorter range cartridge?

 

[todbartell]

its at par with a 300 savage, not a 30-06

 

[Gatehouse]

I've never used one of those to hunt, but if it is similar ballisitcs to a 308 or 30-06 it is a far better choice than a 7.62x39.

 

[Foxer]

7.62 Russian is at par with 30-06, and you call it a shorter range cartridge?

its at par with a 300 savage, not a 30-06

Yeah - little closer to 308 or 300 savage i think. It's throwing a 180 grain pill at something like 2575 fps.

Which is great, don't get me wrong. That's a significant whollop to put on an animal. But it ain't gonna be a 'flat shooter' like a 270 wsm for example, or a 300 wm shooting a 168 grain barnes x or something. I'm just saying goat hunting really doesn't lend itself well to shorter range 'high arc' ballistics, especially over iron sights. But i'm sure if you hit one where it counts, it'll go down.

As gatehouse said - much better choice than the 7.62x39.

 

[rollingrock]

I've never used one of those to hunt, but if it is similar ballisitcs to a 308 or 30-06 it is a far better choice than a 7.62x39.

Oh you really think I'm gonna take SKS to shoot across the hill?

 

[rollingrock]

Yeah - little closer to 308 or 300 savage i think. It's throwing a 180 grain pill at something like 2575 fps.

Which is great, don't get me wrong. That's a significant whollop to put on an animal. But it ain't gonna be a 'flat shooter' like a 270 wsm for example, or a 300 wm shooting a 168 grain barnes x or something. I'm just saying goat hunting really doesn't lend itself well to shorter range 'high arc' ballistics, especially over iron sights. But i'm sure if you hit one where it counts, it'll go down.

As gatehouse said - much better choice than the 7.62x39.

I can load 150 gr for this cal to make it shoot flatter. But just like 303, there's a reason for 174 gr for the cal. Maybe I'll load 123 gr on this cal for Bartell to go after rats/dogs?

 

[Foxer]

I can load 150 gr for this cal to make it shoot flatter. But just like 303, there's a reason for 174 gr for the cal.

Oh yeah, and using premiums and the right powders you can squeeze more performance out of it and make it flatter yet still hard hitting. Like i said, a better choice. It's not a BAD gun to hunt goats with - it's ethical and all.

But there's a practical limit to how far you'll be able to shoot it using open sights after goats in hunting conditions. All i'm saying is most people would say you'd be better served by a rig that's more suited to goat-ranges. And maybe a lighter rifle at that

 

[rollingrock]

Oh yeah, and using premiums and the right powders you can squeeze more performance out of it and make it flatter yet still hard hitting. Like i said, a better choice. It's not a BAD gun to hunt goats with - it's ethical and all.

But there's a practical limit to how far you'll be able to shoot it using open sights after goats in hunting conditions. All i'm saying is most people would say you'd be better served by a rig that's more suited to goat-ranges. And maybe a lighter rifle at that

You know I really don't expect to shoot over 200 meters. Not at all. The gun is 2 or 3 lbs heavier than most synthetic stock rifles, but if these rifles include a decent scopes I guess mine isn't that much heavier. Who knows? You might have good surprises while packing high country.

 

[Foxer]

You know I really don't expect to shoot over 200 meters. Not at all. The gun is 2 or 3 lbs heavier than most synthetic stock rifles, but if these rifles include a decent scopes I guess mine isn't that much heavier.

hey - it's all good. It's a sensible hunting cartridge, and I'm sure it's an accurate rifle. We're into the 'what would be best' discussion, not the 'is it ethical' discussion Most guys go for a lighter-than-standard rifle and a little extra range - but that's just personal choice.

Worst thing that happens is you don't get a shot. Not the end of the world - hunting isn't always about the killing.

 

[MiG25]

its at par with a 300 savage, not a 30-06

aren't the case capacities of the 30-06 and 7.62x54R almost identical?

someday i might take a mosin nagant goat hunting..... after i get one with a steyr M95. i wouldn't take an SKS anywhere near a goat mountain, it's weight isn't justified by its power or accuracy.

people did get goats before WSM's, barnes TSX's, plastic stocks, and leupold scopes.

 

[todbartell]

aren't the case capacities of the 30-06 and 7.62x54R almost identical?

they may hold almost the same amount of water, but the 30-06 runs at higher pressures and makes more speed

a 7.62x54R loaded with a 165 grain bullet @ 2600-2700 f/s will no doubt work on goats inside 250 yards. The rifle is more of a limiting factor, with open sights. Its not my idea of a good mountain gun, but it'll work, and to each their own...

 

[rollingrock]

they may hold almost the same amount of water, but the 30-06 runs at higher pressures and makes more speed

a 7.62x54R loaded with a 165 grain bullet @ 2600-2700 f/s will no doubt work on goats inside 250 yards. The rifle is more of a limiting factor, with open sights. Its not my idea of a good mountain gun, but it'll work, and to each their own...

Why 30-06 runs higher pressure, given the same powder, same load and same bullet?

 

[Foxer]

Why 30-06 runs higher pressure, given the same powder, same load and same bullet?

There's more to cartridge performance than just capacity and bullet.

 

[MiG25]

Why 30-06 runs higher pressure, given the same powder, same load and same bullet?

i assume what he means is that there are rifles out there in 30-06 that are rated for higher pressure than the typical mosin nagant. this is kinda like the factory 7x57 vs 7mm-08.

at equal pressures, the 7.62x54r is capable of higher velocity than the 300 savage due to its greater capacity.

i have never chrono'ed any 30-06 ammo, but in a 20" barrel, 7.62x54r light ball is neck and neck with 7.62 NATO ball in a M305 (2760 vs 2770), i suspect that in equal barrel lengths, the 7.62x54r would be ahead by 50-100 fps. further, published 308 win ballistics are around 2600 fps for a 180 grain bullet, while i have chrono'ed S&B 180 grain 7.62x54r at 2555 fps from a 20" barrel. so as loaded by the factory, the 7.62x54r is ahead of the 308 win/7.62 NATO and definately outclasses the 300 savage ballistically.

 

[rollingrock]

I'm loading my 7.62x54 with 174 gr interlock for hunting or 174 fmj boattail FMJ for target practicing, 44 gr IMR4895 and CCI 200 primer. This is only 1.5 gr below the Steve's suggested largest load. I was expecting some decent kicking shooting this load as a lot people have complained about M44's mule kick. Well, I just don't feel that bad. My experience with Steve's maximum load minus 1 gr of RL7 on my SKS is pretty good, which makes 123 gr shoot flatter even than hot milsurp ammo and yet has had pretty decent accuracy. So I expect my load for M44 to be hotter than any commercial or milsurp ammo, but the problem is I've never shot any Mosin's milsurp ammo and never wanted to.

Foxer mentioned the performance of cartridge, I guess this has to do with the recipes of difference cartridge.

 

[Foxer]

Foxer mentioned the performance of cartridge, I guess this has to do with the recipes of difference cartridge.

well sure - different powders are going to perform different in different cartridge designs. Everything from the slope (or lack thereof) to neck to seating depth etc all has an influence - and of course then there's also barrel length and such.

Bottom line is at least is a good cartridge for big game. Play with it and get the most out of it if you can, but at the end of the day whatever you use if you put a decent bullet in the breadbasket with that gun at normal ranges, you're going to kill the animal even if there's a little bone or something funny.

 

[Dave L.]

While we're at it, I'd like to throw another cartridge into the equation - the 8x57mm Mauser. The heavier bullet may not be so great for longer ranges though, although up close I'd imagine it'd give a pretty good whallop.

I'd like to see someone hunt with one.

- Dave.