agree
ATRS Update: May 20th 2020 Re: MS / MH / MV
- Thread starter ATRS Shaun
- Start date
agree
Fair question.... if by some miracle I got my FRT back in the next couple of weeks as a non-restricted, I would give purchasers the option of which design they wanted. Otherwise, with no other option, it wil be the SAI TR they get. The rifle I submitted was the SAI Sport, which is why I also cannot call this one that, and went with TR, for Target Rifle.
As to this being corporate theft: could not Armalite claim that with every AR15 or AR10 design? Do we know what the actual story is behing the WS180 and the WK180? With my work with Sterling in the UK, I have the entire engineering package to the original AR180.... Rick and I discussed the ATRS rifle and he put it out there, that the design, was not patented and in his own words "anyone was free to copy it". I offered him, what I thought was a very very fair deal with no effort or risk and he made the decision to say no.
I do not know why people are getting so polarized over this. My offering, while compatible is not a replacement for the ATRS and I am very happy with the quality of the rifle. You can like one or the other or both. You can like ATRS and TSE. No one has to take sides. We all, really can get along... also look at production capacity. No one company in Canada can fill the void. We can all make our full capacity, sell everything we can make... and still not meet the demand.... no name calling has to happen.
I will reach out again to Rick to see if he wants to talk, but I will bow out of this thread. If anyone want to ask me anything, feel free to PM me. I am not hard to find.
JR
Was it not patented ?
That point was made that it was a copy and compatible. He said he had his own copy at the lab for what 18 months? And last minute since nothing was moving he went with the atrs design. Not my words, JR's the before, the discutions between them I have no clue but that is what he told. I do believe JR wen he said he didnt take one single sale from atrs... that part about Rick refusing royalties.... who knows! Lets hop they are able to sort this out !
ATRS Shaun
Business Member Rep.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I can confirm that JR does have a seperate model that he submitted, and showed me pictures of it so there was no deceit regarding copying before talking.
More to the point, I also have to agree that this is the time for all of us to work together, fight together, and bring freedom to our industry TOGETHER.
More to the point, I also have to agree that this is the time for all of us to work together, fight together, and bring freedom to our industry TOGETHER.
Lots of dirty laundry on this thread about these two rifles. I have a couple of my own opinions about what I’ve read here, one that I’ll share and which I’ve said before is I wish the MS was as common in Canada as the sks or 10/22.
Maybe we could GoFundMe a new CNC for the boys at ATRS
Maybe we could GoFundMe a new CNC for the boys at ATRS
ATRS Shaun
Business Member Rep.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Literally no space after we just got our 5th one installed at the beginning of the month. Moved in like two days before the ban. Plus side, it's an awesome machine! Op1 isn't complex but it did 540 parts of Op1 in like a week and a half lol. It actually ran itself out of material. Faster spindle and more room on the bed.
Please keep churning these things out so that if any break happens you can throw out thousands. I mean its not like the company won't go bust anyway if you can't
Your quality is 2nd to none. Please consider making new designs, new rifles, that could somehow circumvent this ban. We have 2 years until the amnesty ends, that should be enough time for a fresh lineup.
rifleman762
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
And don't send it to the lab for an FRT entry. They can eat s***. Like they say themselves, the FRT is NOT the law! I wonder how quickly they'd buy one from ATRS so they can classify it? LOL
I would like to point this out to everyone. JR was the ONE who started the RCMP to start reclassifying FRT. He was the ONE who got the Swiss Arms and CZ858 on the list. JR only did that out of greed. He lost the exclusivity to it so he burned everyone including the people who purchased it from him. He didn’t do anything for those people.
Now he did a GoFundme where he is the beneficiary. He has enough money to open stores but he doesn’t put any money in. He is sucking the donations that would go to an actual legal challenges.
Sorry with a track record like that I would never trust TSE and especially JR.
Now he did a GoFundme where he is the beneficiary. He has enough money to open stores but he doesn’t put any money in. He is sucking the donations that would go to an actual legal challenges.
Sorry with a track record like that I would never trust TSE and especially JR.
MrSkrewuvsky
Member
Read the full fxxking story and what that pc of x did.
http://tv-presspass.com/swiss-arms-in-canada-the-full-story/
Merrick2252
New member
- Location
- Southern BC
What do you mean he started the rcmp on reclassifying the FRT? I'll be honest I haven't been following much, I'm sorta new around here.
I was going to stay out of this thread, but again, there have been some seiously nasty things posted about me; spurred on by Rick's rant.
Firstly, yes, I was part of the entire Swiss Arms fiasco and I acknowedged my part over 7 years ago. But as history has shown again: the RCMP were just waiting for an excuse to attack. The incident had nothing to do with exclusivity as I had not been the importer for probably 5 or 6 years at that point and tvpresspass's coverage of the debacle is the equivalent of reading a Toronto Star piece... very selective "reporting" at best. I publicly apologized to the shooting community and also to my ex-partners. We all agreed to move on. Mistakes were made and not repeated.
I have no idea where the link to me for the CZ858 issue ever came from. You'll have to speak with John at Wolverine about that one and his issues with the RCMP reclassification. But to try to link that one to me is completely without merit and untruthful.
Yes, I have a gofundme. I am launching a suit and agreed to be liable to the lawyers for the entire costs. I paid the initial retainer and as one can imagine, it was quickly eaten up. The money raised, and honestly, I am humbled by the support, goes from gofundme to the law firm. It is not co-mingled with my corporate operational monies and I will be posting proof as the monies move. So please do not infer otherwise.
Also, my challenge is not being made in a bubble. My lawyers and I have and are still talking with the other groups. We are all trying to achieve the same thing... and we alll agree that this fight must be the death of 1000 cuts against our common enemy. We cannot rely on one big fight. Lets also be realistic; the shooting community should be able to fund 100's of legal challenges. Me running with one of them is hardly draining the war chest for the community. I have already spent over $10 k of my own money and raised over $70k through the gofundme.... plus I spend probably 4-6 hours a day assisting with research for the case... time I should be spending on building/defending my business. The question that should be asked: how many other companies are preparing or joining or even supporting challenges? Or are they just letting this all happen to them? Telling people to sign petitions is fine and dandy, but at some point, the rubber must hit the road. I would say, to date, there are over 10 companies that have given to my fund and are keenly behind me. I won't forget them and I appreciate them.
It appears that some people are trying their hardest to drive a wedge between Rick and I. Yes, he's upset for his own reasons, but these things pass. Most people don't know, but I am a principle partner in the firearms industry in the UK as well. So I try to look at these things more globally and long term. For some reason, there is waaaaay less acrimonious behaiour in the industry there. Hopefully over time, our industy will evolve and we'll get along better.
Everyone was really quick to point out to me that "competition is good for everyone" when my old partners and I split in 2010 and they opened up a competitive facilty only a couple of km's from me... and I had to adjust and learn... and to be honest, they were right. It made me focus of my features and benefits and to not take the client for granted. for the entire industry, including ATRS, we all now have to evolve and adapt... unlike some Canadian manufacturers, Rick and I are not running away... we are both doubling down.
So... hate me all you want. But hate me for the right reasons... but also, reflect on your own life... are you the same person you were 10 or 20 years ago? Would you make the same decisions today as you did 10 or 20 years ago?... for some things maybe, but I am sure everyone reading this has made some mistakes in judgement they would not repeat. Unfortunately for some of us, the consequences were more widespread and public.
JR
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JR, since you are still here... I am just one of the many individuals who has not given your business a dollar after the SA debacle. But I put the past behind and pitched in a few bucks to help with your current fight.
What's done is done. Lets all move on shall we? Fighting amongst ourselves is not the answer at this time.
We need to be supportive of each and every one who fights this BS. A one shot approach is not the answer. The more people fighting this from different angles the more chance of one of those angles being successful we have. I have been down the road of court challenges before and it is both costly and risky. Not to mention strenuous.
We are all in this together. Now all we need to do is start acting like it.
What's done is done. Lets all move on shall we? Fighting amongst ourselves is not the answer at this time.
We need to be supportive of each and every one who fights this BS. A one shot approach is not the answer. The more people fighting this from different angles the more chance of one of those angles being successful we have. I have been down the road of court challenges before and it is both costly and risky. Not to mention strenuous.
We are all in this together. Now all we need to do is start acting like it.
I agree and appreciate you giving me a second chance.. if Rick does some fundraising for court challenge, I will be one of the first to donate.
I respect Rick and the company he has built from humble beginnings running a lathe in a back room to where he is now.
JR
What you did was unforgivable, anybody who gives you money is nuts.
