ATRS Update: May 20th 2020 Re: MS / MH / MV

It seems I went off half cocked and do apologize. I was NOT aware you had your own design in the works so needless to say saw red to find out that you went ahead and copied our design. I don't recall $200.00 being mentioned but seem to recall $100.00. But that may have been per part. To learn you have 500 ready to go within a month of our conversation led me to believe this was much more premeditated. To crank out 500 in a month normally would be impossible. It takes time to get materials in and time to write programs and then time to actually make the parts, and believe me I AM very aware of the timeframes required.

I deleted many inflammatory posts and hope this is the end of this. Our products are "very dear to our heart" in your words.

This is great guy !!! Personally to me this is a victory that this was settle that way! In a war were we have ben loosing battles back to back to back since May, I take this little victory to heart!

We need to all be pushing in the same direction and this is great! I truly beleive there is a place for both these products in this country!
 
This Murray fellow may have expanded the prohibitions in the FIC to a) get it ready for another order in Council, b) halt production and sale of what are legal, unrestricted firearms, c) flush non-restricted semi-automatic owners into the open when they legally challenge an illegal, FIC based police seizure, or d) all of the above. Should there be a groundswell of support for the community, he has already retired, and his changes can be undone.

You do not have to own the firearm to protest it being added to the FRT.

These businesses would likely have a strong case for a lawsuit.
 
If every licensed owner in Canada gave $100 to a legal defence fund and marketing campaign that would be over $200,00,000. Think about that for a second.
 
Confirmed they apply the law. OIC is law so all guns in the OIC are prohibited. The MS/MV/MH is not in the OIC so it is non restricted in their eye.

Call your provincia CFO, I doubt you will get a different answer. Now lets take those beauties out !

Not all laws that are written are legal laws.

The supreme court has struck down a lot of legislation.

But you're not wrong. Sadly.
 
It is still an unlicensed.. unauthorized version of the MS sporter sounds like industrial theft to me.

Industrial theft on an un-patented design.

Can you tell me how backlogged ATRS is at the moment?

Besides....it's not the same...it's 6061.

As for 'Theft', you would have to prove that any business was taken from ATRS. I don't think that has happened here.

If I placed an order for an MS, when would I get it? Can I even get just an uppr/lwr?
 
I was going to stay out of this thread, but again, there have been some seiously nasty things posted about me; spurred on by Rick's rant.

Firstly, yes, I was part of the entire Swiss Arms fiasco and I acknowedged my part over 7 years ago. But as history has shown again: the RCMP were just waiting for an excuse to attack. The incident had nothing to do with exclusivity as I had not been the importer for probably 5 or 6 years at that point and tvpresspass's coverage of the debacle is the equivalent of reading a Toronto Star piece... very selective "reporting" at best. I publicly apologized to the shooting community and also to my ex-partners. We all agreed to move on. Mistakes were made and not repeated.

I have no idea where the link to me for the CZ858 issue ever came from. You'll have to speak with John at Wolverine about that one and his issues with the RCMP reclassification. But to try to link that one to me is completely without merit and untruthful.

Yes, I have a gofundme. I am launching a suit and agreed to be liable to the lawyers for the entire costs. I paid the initial retainer and as one can imagine, it was quickly eaten up. The money raised, and honestly, I am humbled by the support, goes from gofundme to the law firm. It is not co-mingled with my corporate operational monies and I will be posting proof as the monies move. So please do not infer otherwise.

Also, my challenge is not being made in a bubble. My lawyers and I have and are still talking with the other groups. We are all trying to achieve the same thing... and we alll agree that this fight must be the death of 1000 cuts against our common enemy. We cannot rely on one big fight. Lets also be realistic; the shooting community should be able to fund 100's of legal challenges. Me running with one of them is hardly draining the war chest for the community. I have already spent over $10 k of my own money and raised over $70k through the gofundme.... plus I spend probably 4-6 hours a day assisting with research for the case... time I should be spending on building/defending my business. The question that should be asked: how many other companies are preparing or joining or even supporting challenges? Or are they just letting this all happen to them? Telling people to sign petitions is fine and dandy, but at some point, the rubber must hit the road. I would say, to date, there are over 10 companies that have given to my fund and are keenly behind me. I won't forget them and I appreciate them.

It appears that some people are trying their hardest to drive a wedge between Rick and I. Yes, he's upset for his own reasons, but these things pass. Most people don't know, but I am a principle partner in the firearms industry in the UK as well. So I try to look at these things more globally and long term. For some reason, there is waaaaay less acrimonious behaiour in the industry there. Hopefully over time, our industy will evolve and we'll get along better.

Everyone was really quick to point out to me that "competition is good for everyone" when my old partners and I split in 2010 and they opened up a competitive facilty only a couple of km's from me... and I had to adjust and learn... and to be honest, they were right. It made me focus of my features and benefits and to not take the client for granted. for the entire industry, including ATRS, we all now have to evolve and adapt... unlike some Canadian manufacturers, Rick and I are not running away... we are both doubling down.

So... hate me all you want. But hate me for the right reasons... but also, reflect on your own life... are you the same person you were 10 or 20 years ago? Would you make the same decisions today as you did 10 or 20 years ago?... for some things maybe, but I am sure everyone reading this has made some mistakes in judgement they would not repeat. Unfortunately for some of us, the consequences were more widespread and public.

JR
You say in the previous post that you are not the same person you used to be 10-20 years ago but in the 3rd paragraph down you throw John from wolverine in the mix with regards to the cz858. Why is this? Shows your character. Yes, you do realize that you screwed up in the past but the point you are not getting is that you cost many people including my uncle a lot of frustration and a huge amount of money in the past. He was devastated. You did this all for your own personal gain. What you are doing for the community is a start but only partially makes up for what has been done in the past. When I first got my license and signed up at my range, I was warned about you but I already knew. The people that say “let’s forgive” aren’t the ones who have lost large amounts of money from your doing. Why don’t you show your good faith and offer a credit for what has been taken (yeah right). I unfortunately did not contribute to your go fund me account because I was honestly skeptical of what the money would be used for. When ATRS sets something up I will donate. Sorry for the rant but very frustrated.
 
You say in the previous post that you are not the same person you used to be 10-20 years ago but in the 3rd paragraph down you throw John from wolverine in the mix with regards to the cz858. Why is this? Shows your character. Yes, you do realize that you screwed up in the past but the point you are not getting is that you cost many people including my uncle a lot of frustration and a huge amount of money in the past. He was devastated. You did this all for your own personal gain. What you are doing for the community is a start but only partially makes up for what has been done in the past. When I first got my license and signed up at my range, I was warned about you but I already knew. The people that say “let’s forgive” aren’t the ones who have lost large amounts of money from your doing. Why don’t you show your good faith and offer a credit for what has been taken (yeah right). I unfortunately did not contribute to your go fund me account because I was honestly skeptical of what the money would be used for. When ATRS sets something up I will donate. Sorry for the rant but very frustrated.
Atrs already did one round of clean up in IS TREAD AND HIS FORUM, and ask to stop with the negativity. At least respect Rick and take it somewhere else!

Also what do you want him to do? Set himself on fire? The guys owned up to his mistake and apologized over and over what more eo you want?
 
^^^ deleted because there's no point in quoting this over and over...

The LieBerals have waged an all out war on law abiding gun owners and the hard working men and women in the Canadian firearms industry.

In times like this allies need to be chosen. Sometimes the only thing that makes one your ally is the fact that your enemy is also their enemy.

Do not lose sight of who our real enemy is.
 
^^^ deleted because there's no point in quoting this over and over...

The LieBerals have waged an all out war on law abiding gun owners and the hard working men and women in the Canadian firearms industry.

In times like this allies need to be chosen. Sometimes the only thing that makes one your ally is the fact that your enemy is also their enemy.

Do not lose sight of who our real enemy is.

Well said and I dont understand why its so hard for some to get this.

At lest one should stop trying to devide us lol
 
Also what do you want him to do? Set himself on fire? The guys owned up to his mistake and apologized over and over what more eo you want?
I was basically just pointing out how he threw John from Wolverine under the bus in his post, which shows character. What do we want him to do??? Actions speak louder than words. Anyone can say sorry. The legal case is a step in the right direction and I will eat all of my words if he pulls through which I do give him credit for taking a step. Again my apologies for going off last night but reading all the posts got me going again! I won’t bring this up anymore. Good day to all!
 
^^^ deleted because there's no point in quoting this over and over...

The LieBerals have waged an all out war on law abiding gun owners and the hard working men and women in the Canadian firearms industry.

In times like this allies need to be chosen. Sometimes the only thing that makes one your ally is the fact that your enemy is also their enemy.

Do not lose sight of who our real enemy is.
Now that I have calmed down I must say you are right. I agree
 
Please let us know when you have a gofundme

I gave money to TSE, the CPC, and more to CCFR.

We need lawyers and activism.
 
All banding together is best. Fighting amongst ourselves is bad.

Focus positive energy and passion towards the greater cause!!! Just my two cents.
 
I remember the Swiss Arms fiasco. I donated to the JR’s case under my Liberal MP’s name. We all need to help any way we can. Forget the past or we’ll have no future to enjoy with regards to shooting sports at all.
 
I was basically just pointing out how he threw John from Wolverine under the bus in his post, which shows character. What do we want him to do??? Actions speak louder than words. Anyone can say sorry. The legal case is a step in the right direction and I will eat all of my words if he pulls through which I do give him credit for taking a step. Again my apologies for going off last night but reading all the posts got me going again! I won’t bring this up anymore. Good day to all!

He didn't trow him under the bus, his ooint was that John should know since he is the importer.
 
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