Australian International Arms M10 B1 Sport rifle

Status
Not open for further replies.
I thought pix of targets and foto will be enought.
Well if it's not... I took 10 rounds Igman 150 gr SP with me, brought back 9 and this doe. ;) Just one more observation after the field: iron sight is hard to use in a dusk(any suggestions how to make it more visible?). Other than that, no corrections/addition to my first range report.
 
You can drill out the "L" sight apertures to let more light through, or replace it with a standard No4 sight and use the large battle sight aperture.
 
Steve said:
Well Peter, I appreciate the reply.

As a couple of other posters have indicated, not all the rifles are marked as you said. These must have been the ones originally destined for the US but the permit expired.

My Australian friends are a little concerned with the "Made in Australia" statement as well. They tell me that apart from ADI Lithgow, no other manufacturing facility exists. I have asked a friend to swing by the Queen St address and have a look.

They have emailed suggesting that AIA is playing on words - the semantics game. They have said that "Assembled in Oz" is likely more correct. They have likely rented a warehouse and are performling a final assembly there. No layman on either side of the Pacific can understand why they might be doing this (if this is indeed the case). How hard is it to admit that the parts come from Vietnam and the rifles are put together in Oz? It must be the stigma of the word - Vietnam. Unfortunately, I am forced to agree. I will continue to investigate this until everything comes out.

WRT liability issues, let me be more direct. If a receiver blows up in someone's face, who takes responsiblity? Marstar - the importer and distributor? Wolverine? AIA? Who does the injured party (or their estate) contact? It's not simply a matter of busted sights or cracked forestocks that concerns a lot of us. Accidents can happen. They can be the user's fault or a defective product. Again, no one knows what to do.

This next bit is part of almost all of the email traffic sent to my site; a concern that's been expressed by Canadians, Americans and Australians. The owners - Peter and Evan Ham - do not seem to be very good at running their business. They have allowed two American distributors to fall through their fingers. They fouled up. Will they do so with Marstar? They do not seem to understand a customer's right to know what they're buying, from whom they're buying and other details like where the plant is located, contact persons, phone numbers, regular mail or email. I agree. This lack of information has really seemed to rile people up.

Free counsel - take it in the spirit that it is given. Should you wish to sell to the US, be aware that AIA is NOT good with PR nor are they open and above board in their dealings with customers. (Why else would this discussion be going on?) At first, I had to deal with the ASIC (Australian Securities and Investments Commission) because no one would talk with me directly. You may have noticed you get a lot of answering machines and few real people. That's what frustrated Tristar and SDI both.

Americans are suspicious and rightly so. Some were badly burned with warranty issues when Tristar first got the rifles down south. They are not shy to spread the bad word. Tristar made attempts to rectify shortcomings but could not because of a lack of good communication from AIA. Their reaction to the whole situation and the reason why they dropped AIA - "Delivery issues, and inability to work with the supplier. Long periods of no contact at all, and actually un-cooperative." The reaction to AIA and their rifles by Australian shooters is mixed too.

A person who was speaking for the owners told me last night that repair/warranty issues had to be dealt with by the distributor. It wasn't AIA's problem. When the warranty issues start, I sincerely hope that they are merely sights or broken trigger guards. Based on customers reactions in Oz, AIA wasn't any help. In the end, the customer wants it fixed. They remember the name - AIA or Marstar or Rebel Gun Works - in a less than favourable light if things are not made right.

People internationally are surprised with the lack of information. Virtually every email I've received has said that they are the only firearms company that is so secretive. (their words, not mine - but I agree) Why can't they be like Remington, Winchester and the rest? What could I say? They brought up a valid point. The Hams may not be trying to hide anything but that's not the impression they've left with people the past four or five years.

Good luck. I suspect you'll need it.
Click to expand...

Steve- I've been following your crusade on 3 different forums, it's riveting stuff indeed, but why do the words "witch hunt" seem to suggest themselves to me somewhat? You're like a pit bull that has decided that something has to be destroyed...any way to pry your jaws apart a trifle? I'm picturing the enraged locals beseiging Dracula's castle with pitchforks and torches...
I don't believe the people that make and distribute AIA rifles are evil.
 
Last edited:
Somewhere I read that they initially worked with Lithgow but ended up having quality problems with the castings. Someone bemoaned the fact that they had to move the work to SE Asia to get acceptable quality.


Forty4Forty said:
Here is what I know. In 1999 I saw the prototypes of these rifles at Lawrence Ordinance Arms, and was lead to believe they were made in Australia, in Lithgow (any 303 collector knows that place). During the same visit I visited the museum at the Lithgow factory, a great one. It has taken them a long time to come to market with the .308 one, it was discussed at the time, which is the one I have always wanted. FYI still sells in AUZ, for AU $ 1050.00 (CAD $ 874.00) excluding the extras Marstar is throwing in. I do agree it takes Marstar forever these days to process and order, oh well patience is a virtue.

Perhaps a real .303 is cheaper, $400.00+ for a good like new one, but as a collector rather beat a new non original, noting some mention of .303 been rebored (aaaah messing up an original) to .308. well Enfield did not even get that right, the only really successful one was the Ishapore 2A, the DCRA target version, the rifle was not considered strong enough for .308, the Indians used different metal, and that is way I assume the AIA M10 is heaver for the higher .308 pressures. .02c

Australian International Arms

Current exporter located in Brisbane, Australia. Australian International Arms works in cooperation with ADI Limited Lithgow, formerly Small Arms Factory, known for its SMLE No. I MKIII and L1A1 rifles.

https://store.bluebookinc.com/download/Category.aspx?product=GUN&id=121

ADI Limited

http://www.adi-limited.com/2-01-010-010-000.html

lawrence.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Hitzy said:
Even if you were sucessful in a judgement suing a 3rd party from another country, there is no provisions to actually make them pay damages.
That said, you only need to be found 1% responsible and you could have to pay the entire claim.....so in this case the importer/distributor would take the fall.:)
Click to expand...

Why all this talk about lawsuits? People are sounding like a bunch of lawyers...lawyers suck...:mad:
Caveat emptor...I'm not expecting ROF(F) to stand behind my 43 rifle, let's get real. Yes, I know it's a new rifle.
 
V1 said:
I thought pix of targets and foto will be enought.
Well if it's not... I took 10 rounds Igman 150 gr SP with me, brought back 9 and this doe. ;) Just one more observation after the field: iron sight is hard to use in a dusk(any suggestions how to make it more visible?). Other than that, no corrections/addition to my first range report.
Click to expand...

Swap in a Mark 1 sight...they drop right in. Bigger battle peep sight.
 
If you are so worried about the rifle blowing up why buy it in the first place ?

Im somewhat curious on how the litigation would work if the "unthinkable would happen" , Ill check it out.
 
cantom and Steve
Thanks for a clue....
Regarding lawyers...Well some people feel unsafe going into washroom without a lawyer. That an indication of bad things happening to the society. Unmanageable legal system starts to bring Western civilisation down as letigations and liablilities replace a habit to take personal responsibilities
 
Last edited:
I too am not a fan of all the legal flak... Lets just rejoice we have them here, and that we get them cheaper than even the aussies, and just "let it go" :) They are well built rifles, and if a '43 long branch kaboomed on you, I'd hazard to say any potential AIA kaboom should be viewed the same way; you looked at the product, took the risk, and it's your risk with little recourse. Lawsuits sink our sport.
 
I don't wish to wade in on this late but the fact remains that the AIA rifles fill a niche not filled by any other rifle.
The fact that they're bloody expensive is beside the point.
At the end of the day a M10 in 7.62 NATO is less likely to blow up than an Ishapore.
Anyone in fear of their M10 blowing up on them can send it to me for extensive field testing.
Of course the only way to make sure that it doesn't EVER blow up on you or in your general vicinity is to make sure I'm ALWAYS the one who fires it and looks after it. ;)
 
cantom said:
Steve- I've been following your crusade on 3 different forums, it's riveting stuff indeed, but why do the words "witch hunt" seem to suggest themselves to me somewhat? You're like a pit bull that has decided that something has to be destroyed...any way to pry your jaws apart a trifle? I'm picturing the enraged locals beseiging Dracula's castle with pitchforks and torches...
I don't believe the people that make and distribute AIA rifles are evil.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the tardy reply. I was away for a couple of weeks.

It's hardly a crusade or a witch hunt. I simply would like some details on a rifle that, as a consumer, I feel I am entitled to know. Don't you think that you are entitiled to know the answers to these querstions? Who makes them? Where are they made? What is the 70% law in Oz? Etc.

On another forum I was told that I did not receive a response because the details were unknown. Why are they unknown? I questioned that statement. The second response was given as "security reasons". Oh brother! Just like Remington, Savage, Kimber, Winchester and all the others hide their business information too? Oh, sorry. they do not.

Can you imagine a person considering the purchase of a Remington rifle or a new truck and being told not to bother with details - just buy it? I cannot tell you about the company or anything. Security you understand.

Some Australian friends have been looking into things closer to the source. I do not suggest that Marstar is attempting to hide anything. Frankly, I don't think they know very much about AIA themselves.

I believe that I have the right to ask those questions - including liability issues. What made me uneasy was that no one would answer them. What made me really wonder was when I attempted to find an address or contact name and none was given. As far as I know, this is the only firearms manufacturer that does not give out ANY information.

I cannot understand why anyone would find my questions out of line or suggest a witch hunt. For those that are interested and would like to write them -

The company office is registered to Ham & Partners Level 6, 344 Queen Street, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia. The owners are Peter and Evan Ham, 60 and 58 yrs old respectively. They are equal partners. AIA was incorporated with the Australian Securities and Investments Commission on 24 Dec 1996. They are listed a manufacturer and wholesaler of firearms. Previously (or perhaps concurrently in addition to using the name AIA), they were known as Australian Collector Arms, apparently founded in 1993.
 
Steve said:
Sorry for the tardy reply. I was away for a couple of weeks.

It's hardly a crusade or a witch hunt. I simply would like some details on a rifle that, as a consumer, I feel I am entitled to know. Don't you think that you are entitiled to know the answers to these querstions? Who makes them? Where are they made? What is the 70% law in Oz? Etc.

On another forum I was told that I did not receive a response because the details were unknown. Why are they unknown? I questioned that statement. The second response was given as "security reasons". Oh brother! Just like Remington, Savage, Kimber, Winchester and all the others hide their business information too? Oh, sorry. they do not.

Can you imagine a person considering the purchase of a Remington rifle or a new truck and being told not to bother with details - just buy it? I cannot tell you about the company or anything. Security you understand.

Some Australian friends have been looking into things closer to the source. I do not suggest that Marstar is attempting to hide anything. Frankly, I don't think they know very much about AIA themselves.

I believe that I have the right to ask those questions - including liability issues. What made me uneasy was that no one would answer them. What made me really wonder was when I attempted to find an address or contact name and none was given. As far as I know, this is the only firearms manufacturer that does not give out ANY information.

I cannot understand why anyone would find my questions out of line or suggest a witch hunt. For those that are interested and would like to write them -

The company office is registered to Ham & Partners Level 6, 344 Queen Street, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia. The owners are Peter and Evan Ham, 60 and 58 yrs old respectively. They are equal partners. AIA was incorporated with the Australian Securities and Investments Commission on 24 Dec 1996. They are listed a manufacturer and wholesaler of firearms. Previously (or perhaps concurrently in addition to using the name AIA), they were known as Australian Collector Arms, apparently founded in 1993.
Click to expand...

Since I'm not a lawyer and don't care about those issues much, if I did write the Hams it would be to thank them for their no doubt difficult efforts to develop, produce and distribute these interesting and beautiful rifles.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom