Auto-Forward on Mag insertion: Feature? Bug?

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A_guy

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The first handgun I ever owned would release the slide any time a fully-loaded (but only full loaded) mag was inserted with any level of enthusiasm. I had no prior background and that seemed like a reasonable and predictable feature to me. I mean, it's not like I'm going to drive home a fresh mag and not drop the slide so yay for auto-forward. I have a few more today and note that some reliably auto-forward and some do not, ever.

In little bits and pieces of different conversations, I see some people feel that it's dangerous, a bug and not a feature. I'm curious about that. As an "I'd rather it didn't" - sure, different strokes for different folks, but what about this "auto-forward of the slide when inserting a mag is dangerous" bit? Dangerous how?
 
On most pistols it is not a design feature, but a condition that can be induced. I use the condition when shooting against the clock.

The only pistol I have that has it as a design feature is a HK4.
 
Frame Flex was quite consistent on my Smith & Wesson M&P9 gen 1, like Granderite says, it was not an intended feature but a condition that could be consistently induced with the hard insertion of a fresh mag. I found this to be quite useful also when shooting against the clock.
 
Tends to happen with full or near full mag because the compressed mag spring pushes top round against bottom of slide, making it "skip" up, releasing the slide lock.

Never had it happen on my custom 2011, never on my plain jane ruger 1911, occasionally on my Springfield xd9 especially if I'm aggressive with reload during a uspsa stage. Happens often with my well used BHP, i assume because its a bit "loose".

In competition I don't rely on it - if at slide lock (which hopefully do not mess up that poorly) i go to slingshot after mag insert, if slide already going forward just carry on, if not slingshot.

As for hazard - I'd think only if inexperienced shooter is surprised so reacts poorly on trigger. Some say slam fire but I'd say that if that happens it is gun issue (or ammo, ie primer not fully seated) and would happen same from slingshot.
 
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My M&P9 does it reliably (and it's never failed to feed properly), provided I seat the magazine with enthusiam; if you seat the magazine gently, it doesn't auto-forward at all. I like it that way.

The last match I shot (an 'outlaw' PPC match, you could say) had a weird rule. Instead of the more common LAMR command, the command to 'load' was separate from the command to 'make ready', so when they said "load", they wanted you to draw your pistol from it's holster and insert the magazine into the pistol, but nothing else; they did NOT want you to actually chamber a cartridge until the later "make ready" command. One competitor questioned the rule, protested that his pistol "auto-forwards", and asked what was he to do. (Keep in mind that noone had told anyone to have the slide to the rear, or to retract the slide, or anything like that.) His pistol "auto forwards" (he said), and he didn't know what to do.

That's what you're dealing with. That's where we are as a society.
 
Don't like it myself.

As an ACG defensive firearms instructor my argument is, how do you know that the mag was fully inserted before the slide started forwards. Did your movements or thumb dislodge the slide stop ?

Are you going to rely on chance if you need your gun in am emergency ?

However, you aren't compromising your chance of surviving a gun fight if you are shooting IPSC or IDPA against the clock. Aside from the abuse to the equipment, do as you wish.

TJ
 
Talljoe said:
Don't like it myself... Are you going to rely on chance if you need your gun in am emergency?
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When I last took a class from him, John Farnam recommended running the slide after EVERY reload, EVERY time (as a matter of habit), regardless of whether or not you thought there was a cartidge in the chamber.

His argument was, I guess, better safe than sorry.
 
My Jericho and P10 do it reliably, every time.

Given the current gun-laws in Canada, as a civilian I'm pretty unlikely to be in a position where I'm loading a handgun in a defensive situation. At least I hope that remains the case. Your point is well taken however. Eliminating ambiguity, training muscle memory, having defined actions - these all make sense.

I have seen a Wilson video where they talked about the potential to deform the mag lips if you're being aggressive with the mag insertion - but that's the only equipment abuse I worry about in this scenario and so act accordingly. I was more concerned that somehow I was missing something safety-related but couldn't see anything that wouldn't be duplicated by dropping the slide with the release.

Thanks for all the feedback.
 
I would consider it a flaw myself. I have practiced reloads a certain way far too often to have something like that screw me up. A new/stronger slide stop spring should fix it.
 
Wendell said:
My M&P9 does it reliably (and it's never failed to feed properly), provided I seat the magazine with enthusiam; if you seat the magazine gently, it doesn't auto-forward at all. I like it that way.

The last match I shot (an 'outlaw' PPC match, you could say) had a weird rule. Instead of the more common LAMR command, the command to 'load' was separate from the command to 'make ready', so when they said "load", they wanted you to draw your pistol from it's holster and insert the magazine into the pistol, but nothing else; they did NOT want you to actually chamber a cartridge until the later "make ready" command. One competitor questioned the rule, protested that his pistol "auto-forwards", and asked what was he to do. (Keep in mind that noone had told anyone to have the slide to the rear, or to retract the slide, or anything like that.) His pistol "auto forwards" (he said), and he didn't know what to do.

That's what you're dealing with. That's where we are as a society.
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Having shot that match 2 years ago with a GP K100. There was a guy with a STI GP6 and he inserted a mag hard enough, to release the slide and it got yelled at. He and I brought up that. It was how the gun was designed. So it was said back then, to just load it when they say ready.

But as long as Ive been shooting the PPC 1500 match by NSRA ( 3rd time ) the commands always been separate between load, and make ready. So it's nothing new for this match, IT has always been the same.

BTW the guy that brought it up. He was mainly a revolver shooter, all I ever seen him shoot when he shot with us. But cannot fault the guy for asking. Better to ask, then asked to leave for failing to listen to range commands.

Guess if you got a problem with it, bring it up with the NSRA committee. Then #####ing online about it. Personally doesn't bother me having the commands separated. Even in the Military the commands were separated..
 
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When I last took a class from him, John Farnam recommended running the slide after EVERY reload, EVERY time (as a matter of habit), regardless of whether or not you thought there was a cartidge in the chamber.

His argument was, I guess, better safe than sorry.
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Interesting.

Combat reload.......(dump the partly used mag) I think if the gun works properly there is a round in the chamber, don't throw it away.

Tactical reload......(Saving the partly used mag) Same applies really.

Emergency reload.......Slide locked back, Dump the empty one, if the slide bumps forward I would re-rack to be sure, if I thought there was time !

Of course, there is always a possibility that an empty mag didn't lock the slide back for some reason. So then it's a case of, "Did I fire 9 or did I fire 10, well, do I feel lucky ?". Ha ha ! (If I had shot a lot I would have to agree with Farnam.)

TJ
 
I love it on my Shadows.
My Grand Power K22 X-Trim was faulty in this area, because you could lock the slide back to show clear, lay the gun on a bench, and the slightest vibration would cause the slide to close, as the gun was laying there on the bench.

So I filed the slide to create a more reliable angle for the slide release piece to sit, and be more stable. It will still ‘auto forward’ with a solid mag change, but not a soft one.
 
And to further more give some detail about that PPC match, that the guy asked the question about auto slide closing.. I do believe they made us start with the slide open. Because why else would it be relevant? So maybe that guy shot the match, back then.
 
It has nothing to do with mags and loaded rounds lifting slides up or anything like that. It has everything to do with basic physics. If you hit the bottom of the pistol, the mag well, hard enough, with the gun angled right, with or without a mag, the slide will go forward. It is really simple, you're jarring the frame forward, but the slide is trying to stay motionless and is allowed to do so because of the recoil spring. Once the frame moves enough thst the slidestop/release spring can release the stop/release, it does, then when the motion of the frame stop and the recoil spring takes over, the slide goes forward. It's similar to grasping the slide and pulling it to the rear and then releasing it. Guns with really sharp engagement surfaces and super heavy recoil springs are less likely to do this.
 
Slavex said:
It has nothing to do with mags and loaded rounds lifting slides up or anything like that. It has everything to do with basic physics. If you hit the bottom of the pistol, the mag well, hard enough, with the gun angled right, with or without a mag, the slide will go forward.
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I was going to say that that is not what I'd experienced, but thought I'd shut up and test it first. Confirmed - with no mag at all, a bump on the bottom of the mag well will indeed set the chain in motion to release the slide. I stand corrected and newly informed.
 
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