Availability of Re26, Norma MRP, and Vihtavuori N560 in Canada

South Pender

South Pender

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I've just purchased the QuickLOAD program and have checked out some powders for use in my .270 Win. The old standbys IMR4350 and H4831 are candidates, of course, but some of the newer powders appear to promise better velocities at the same pressures.

In particular, Alliant Re26 and Vihtavuori N560 look very promising. Does anyone know where I can purchase these in Canada now? Also, I'd like to get some Norma MRP and am having trouble finding any in Canada.

Thanks in advance.
 
I would stick to Re26 and Norma MRP. I was able to get 3030 fps with MRP, Sierra 150 in a 22,4 inch barrel and 3060 with NP 150 with Re26. Both sub moa and safe laods. Re 26 is very hard to find now (Cabela's had it a while ago, I got 4 Lbs). MRP is easier to find. if you want N560 check Hirsch precision and Prophet River.
For most of your use, H4831 is more than enough. If you want to shoot very long distances with the 150 at high velocity I would suggest MRP or Re26. And if you want high velocity with 130 you should try Re16.
 
mimile said:
I would stick to Re26 and Norma MRP. I was able to get 3030 fps with MRP, Sierra 150 in a 22,4 inch barrel and 3060 with NP 150 with Re26. Both sub moa and safe laods. Re 26 is very hard to find now (Cabela's had it a while ago, I got 4 Lbs). MRP is easier to find. if you want N560 check Hirsch precision and Prophet River.
For most of your use, H4831 is more than enough. If you want to shoot very long distances with the 150 at high velocity I would suggest MRP or Re26. And if you want high velocity with 130 you should try Re16.
Click to expand...
Yes, you'd think that would make sense--going to a faster-burning powder with the lighter bullet. Interestingly, though, when I ran QuickLOAD with both powders and the 130-gr. Nosler Accubond bullet, Re26 showed higher velocities at similar and acceptable pressures (3217 fps, 61,293 psi - flagged as safe by the program) than Re16 (3137 fps, 61,590 psi). These results are for a 22.6" barrel. Of course, QuickLOAD doesn't tell the entire story, and Re16 may well be worth trying.
 
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Sure. Again you have to ask yourself why you want such high speed. It is only needed if you want to reach very far, beyond 300 yards, I would say. Up to 300 yards using 60 grain H4831 with any 130 grain bullet will get you around 3000 fps. That's still too destructive if you are shooting deer at short distance. For hunting in the woods with a 130 grain bullet 2800 fps is more than enough. Ultimately I think one only needs one bullet for the 270: the 150 Nosler Partition. You can use two loads for it. One for the woods at around 2800 fps and one for long distance at around 2950-3050. H4831 will do for the first and Re26 for the second. Both sub-moa accuracy.
 
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Right; it depends on what you are hunting with your 270. For pronghorns (which I've hunted a lot) and open-country mulies, I want high velocity--preferably 3150+ fps. Shots can be long, and, with well-constructed 130-gr. .277 bullets (like Nosler Partitions), bullet blow-up is unlikely. This has been my reason for tracking down some Re26.
 
Peter at Hirsch Precision and Prophet River are my main sourves for VV powder. I've never used 560 but have used both 540 and 550 in a variety of cartridges and gotten very good velocity and accuracy.

Why don't you post all your numbers you are inputting into QL and I'll run the same numbers into GRT and see what results it spits out for N560 and RL 26
 
Heddok said:
Peter at Hirsch Precision and Prophet River are my main sourves for VV powder. I've never used 560 but have used both 540 and 550 in a variety of cartridges and gotten very good velocity and accuracy.

Why don't you post all your numbers you are inputting into QL and I'll run the same numbers into GRT and see what results it spits out for N560 and RL 26
Click to expand...
Yes, I've found VV N560 at both places you mention. Unfortunately, it's available only in 1 kg. size. I'd rather not commit to that amount (2.2 lbs.) without knowing how it will work for me.

As for my QL runs, I'll play along! Here are the variables: (a) Case capacity (to top of neck): 67.0 gr. (b) bullet: 130 Nosler Accubond, (c) bullet length: 1.245",
(d) cartridge OAL: 3.34" (e) barrel length: 22.6". Results at top (but, according to QL safe) pressures:

1. VV N560: Velocity: 3146 fps; Pressure: 60,319 psi. "Near Maximum" noted
2. Alliant Re26: Velocity: 3217 fps; Pressure: 61,293 psi. "Near Maximum" noted.

Any heavier charge, in both cases, is noted as “DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!”
 
Results from GRT with the data you supplied
130 gr Accubond N-560 60.5 gr gives a MV of 3149, max pressure of 60551 and a load ratio of 104% (so compressed) and a burn ratio of 90.8%. Recoil is 24 ft/lbs for a 7 lb rifle. CIP max pressure for 270 Win is listed at 62,336 psi so this is absolutely a max load.

I can't run a sim for RL-26 as there is no powder calibration for it yet.

The GRT database lists aan average H2O case capacity as 71.5 grains so significantly different than your case capacity.
 
GRT
predicts with your data that Norma MRP 60.5 gr gives MV 3141 @58,515 psi load ratio of 104% and burn ratio of 97.7% which is much better than the above numbers for N-560 with only 90.8% burn.

I think that a light bullet in a short barrel is problematic for this cartridge.
 
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Heddok said:
The GRT database lists aan average H2O case capacity as 71.5 grains so significantly different than your case capacity.
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That case capacity for 270 Win. of 71.5 gr. is quite different from what I've seen in several sources--showing a range from 66.5 to 68 gr. The 67.0 gr. capacity that I used is for a full-length sized case. I also ran results for a neck-only sized case, which I found, from my own cases, to be 69.5 gr. Using that capacity, I got the following (everything else the same):

VV N560: Velocity: 3132 fps; Pressure: 58,364 psi. "Near Maximum" noted

The results for this case size and Re26 is Velocity: 3217 fps, Pressure: 60,382 psi. "Near Maximum" noted.

The results for this case size and Norma MRP is: Velocity: 3198 fps, Pressure: 61,356 psi. "Near Maximum" noted. Proportion burnt: 99.1%; Load Filling: 104%.

I think that this velocity for the 130-gr. bullet out of a 22.6" barrel is pretty good. I don't think the barrel length has really hampered performance here.

Yes, I noticed that Budget Shooter Supply had some MRP, but I was hoping to get it before Sept. 8 when he opens back up.
 
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The two different programs give numbers that are very close to each other. GRT recomends using H2O capacity of a fired unsized case as the developer believes this will give the user results that are more accurate as it is a reflect5ion of the chamber volume of his rifle not the volume of his sizing die.

I'm going to slowly collect a lot of measurements on all my reloading projects and plug them into the internal ballistics software to learn about the strength's and weaknesses of the modelling.
 
Heddok said:
GRT
predicts with your data that Norma MRP 60.5 gr gives MV 3141 @58,515 psi load ratio of 104% and burn ratio of 97.7% which is much better than the above numbers for N-560 with only 90.8% burn.

I think that a light bullet in a short barrel is problematic for this cartridge.
Click to expand...

Yes, and it is even worse with a slow burning powder.
 
South Pender said:
1. VV N560: Velocity: 3146 fps; Pressure: 60,319 psi. "Near Maximum" noted
2. Alliant Re26: Velocity: 3217 fps; Pressure: 61,293 psi. "Near Maximum" noted.

Any heavier charge, in both cases, is noted as “DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!”
Click to expand...

with QL, don't forget to adjust start pressure from the default 3626psi. Add 7200 psi to this number for a length that jams the lands (10,826psi), for every .001" back from the lands, subtract 29psi from 10,826psi. So if at 3.34" OAL, you're .100" off the lands, your start pressure would be 7,926 (10,826 - 2,900 = 7,926)

Using an h2O of 67.0grs case capacity (I measure with fired, unsized casings), 61.0grs RL26 should give 3192 fps (102% load density) / 59,500psi peak pressure. Z1 is slow of Pmax , meaning RL26 is slow burning for the application of 130gr bullets, better used with 140gr or heavier

58.0grs Viht N560 is a similar story, but 3050 fps speed

Norma MRP, 59.0grs is predicted to give 3115 fps. 58k psi pressure. Z1 also on the slow side of Pmax

RL19 or RL23, Hodgdon 100V, H4350, StaBALL 6.5 may be more ideally suited to 270 Win 130gr loads
 
According to most data available, N560 should perform close to Norma MRP.

However, in my experience, I always run into pressure signs before I get
the velocities that the books say I should with this powder.

Norma MRP trumps it in every chambering I have tried it in.

For example, in a 6.5x55 [Shilen 26"barrel] Norma MRP peaks at just over 48
grains of MRP for 2845 fps.

With Vihtavuori N560, I cannot go above 46.5 grains for 65 fps less velocity.
All components [brass, primer, bullet] are identical.

I got similar results in 2 different 6mm Remingtons. [one has a Jury 26", the
other a Benchmark 26"]

Vihtavuori makes great powders, but I have had a lot number of N160 and a
1 kg container of N150 go bad, so keep your eye on your stocks. Check them
on a monthly basis.

No 500 series powders have deteriorated, so that may be good to know.
Regards, Dave.
 
todbartell said:
with QL, don't forget to adjust start pressure from the default 3626psi. Add 7200 psi to this number for a length that jams the lands (10,826psi), for every .001" back from the lands, subtract 29psi from 10,826psi. So if at 3.34" OAL, you're .100" off the lands, your start pressure would be 7,926 (10,826 - 2,900 = 7,926)
Click to expand...
That makes a tremendous difference. For seating the bullet .03 off the lands, for example, the change to the shot start/initialization pressure goes from 3626 to 9956. This considerably reduces the charge-weight for acceptable pressure and reduces the velocity, again at acceptable pressure.

Where did you get the correction factor calculation values? I couldn’t find that in the QL User’s Guide. And where does the default value of 3626 come from. If the calculations are correct, that value, 3626, must reference a bullet miles off the lands.
 
South Pender said:
That makes a tremendous difference. For seating the bullet .03 off the lands, for example, the change to the shot start/initialization pressure goes from 3626 to 9956. This considerably reduces the charge-weight for acceptable pressure and reduces the velocity, again at acceptable pressure.

Where did you get the correction factor calculation values? I couldn’t find that in the QL User’s Guide. And where does the default value of 3626 come from. If the calculations are correct, that value, 3626, must reference a bullet miles off the lands.
Click to expand...

Can't remember where I have read it, but I've seen it online. BCBrad on CGN is the QL Yoda, I just do what he tells me to do

Run 3626psi default start pressure and you'll find predictions / results will not be very close together, if you're loading close to the lands
 
kwiebe said:
You might want to find some RL22 by Alliant. I believe it is the same as Norma MRP. Guns and Ammo claimed it was the same powder in 2013.
Click to expand...

I have personally spoken to Nils Kvale at Norma in Amotfors, Sweden. MRP and Reloder 22 are NOT identical, but are very close.

Interesting conversation with this Gentleman, very informative. He took me on a history lesson. The first Magnum powder Norma
marketed was Norma 205, but lot-to-lot consistency reared it's ugly head, and complaints began to appear. Norma tightened up its
consistency, and renamed this powder MRP [Magnum Rifle Powder] MRP is manufactured at more than one location in Sweden,
and Bofors is one of the largest suppliers of MRP, but as it comes from that factory, it is known as RP-5. It is MRP, by another designation.

I have all three here at home. About ½ lb left of N-205, several 500 gram containers of MRP, and several pounds of RP-5, which was
marketed by Higginsons when Thomas was still alive. I use my MRP and RP-5 interchangeably, and the results are for all practical
purposes, identical. I might add that lot-to-lot consistency is extremely good.

I examined the powders under high magnification, and they even look different. Additionally, MRP is less temp sensitive than is RL-22
Regards, Dave.
 
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