well I canvased our company marksmen, gun enthousists, and CFSAC team members and a couple senior NCO's; The C77 round does start to tumble as little as 400 meters out, at 600 the magority are tumbling. I though I was the odd man out with a possibly unique experience on this happening to me. But confirming with active shooters and senior military members that run ranges and have been in the infantry since the inception of the riffle has shown me that my statements on tumble are indead correct.
You might get difrrent results with a civilian ammo and Ar15 but our service riffle has these charicteristics.
Wrong.If your company rifles are doing this they should be sent for a serious working over.Tumbling rounds IS NOT a characteristic of the C7 OR C77 ammunition.Anyone who spread this information to you is well uninformed and needs a lesson or two themselves.Strangely enough I find this kind of info spread mainly from guys "that have been in the infantry since the inception of the riffle."Generally they have no idea what they are talking about.
Accuracy at range: Our CFSAC guys said they can hit 5 inch groups at 500m with a high power scope. A scope that is only afforded to designated marksmen and shooting team members. 600 is unrealistic for a standard C7A2 because the power of the optics is not great enough; the post in the elcan will obscure a man sized target, even at 300 the top of the post dominates the figure 11 target. Not only that but the zero on the elcan c79 is not reliable enough for presion shooting at that range. Hence one of the reasons why we use "volley fire".
Oh boy where to start.Fire enough shot and some will go into 5 inches.Consistantly?Highly doubt it.What high power scope are you talking about anyways that is only for DM and shooting team guys?I've been to a lot of CFSACs and never seen anything other than Elcans,Unertals on the C3 and S+B PM2 on the C14.There isn't one.600 is not unrealistic for the C7 weapon system.It's unrealistic for an untrained shooter who keeps being told that the effective range is 300m by someone who has no idea.
When was the last time you looked through and Elcan?If yours is obscuring a fig11 at 300m, I ask you why you are aiming for the top of his head?
For the last time, when you have a worn out lower reciever that slops around due to 1/16" play around the take down pins, it will affect accuracy. Since consistantcy is a magor part of accuracy (the ability to put rounds close togeather) when the upper reciver can bouce around on the riffle it might be shooting "straight" but strait in slightly difrent derections ever time you fire. Combined with the fact that the bolt enters the lower reciever via the buffer tube having them tight togeather makes a huge difrence in achiving tight groupings.
Wrong again."when the upper reciver can bouce around on the riffle it might be shooting "straight" but strait in slightly difrent derections ever time you fire." The upper only sits on top of the receiver.It doesn't have to be seated exactly the same every time because the sights are attached to it only.As long as the sights are aligned correctly it doesn't matter what the lower is doing.The bolt coming from the buffer has zero to do with it because once that round is driven home into the chamber the bolt sits only in the upper.Buffer tube alignment is a moot point.Zero effect.
Effectivness of the round at range. It is not considered "effective" past 600 at a live target because its not.
Oh thats why!I was wonder why it isn't effective past 600m.Thanks for clearing that up with the best reasoning I've ever heard.
Even at 600 guys can take a hit and keep trucking. Hit does not mean out of the fight. A broken rib and a laceration on the chest hurts but is far from fatal, even dabilitating on a adrenilan filled fighter. At 600 guys get hit in the leg and limp away on there own power. And when you get guys high on drugs like in afghanistan, we have seen guys get an arm blown off with a 25mm HEIT round, pick up their arm, put in in the crook of there remaining arm and keep shooting at us.
Wow you don't hit him center of mass and he keeps going?Who woulda figured?The key to dropping a guy at 600m is to hit him in the vitals.NOT break a rib,lacerate a chest, hit him in the arm or the leg.
So the 5.56 round is not effective out to 600 against a personal target unless you have siffecient amount of rounds going through his vitals AKA from a guy that can actually shoot .
Fixed it for you.
Anything else I should cover or does anyone else want to pick at my job knowlage and proffesion?.
Playing puffy chest here just makes you look more silly.Your "knowlage" of your profession may be fine however your knowledge of other things needs some remedial training.It's actually not your fault because misinformation about marksmanship and what is possible with the C7 and ammo is rampant in th CF.It's either what you've been taught OR it's something you picked up off the internet.
You have no idea how many other folks in your profession are reading this and laughing.I'm one of them.But I obviously don't count because I'm just a reservist.