B&C on long-range shooting

Brian46 said:
What is long range for me and the ethics I practice while hunting is mine alone in the field, why should there be a cut off other than what you limit yourself to under ethical practices? The hunting regulations do not impose a limit on yards because a hunters ability is that limitation.

Why do some think there should be a limit set is the real question?
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I don't, that is exactly what I'm arguing against, read my posts here in this very thread. :)
 
Brian46 said:
So what makes that ok but someone else not ok? Was it the rifle, caliber, yardage, person or animal that swayed you to say it is ok?

I am sure if I did the same thing with a 50bmg the tune would be sung a different way.
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You will notice that I was quoting Track... the shot that I referred to was his... a nice shot with a nice gun made in the past couple years... my point was that even those not in favour of extreme range shooting "may" take shots that "seem" extreme to another shooter. Superbrad was correct... my point was that drawing a line in the sand related to linear distance is pointless and impossible to fairly quantify... other sports realized this long ago and began to focus on the equipment used, which naturally limits performance... and before you jump down my throat... I am not (at this time) in favour of equipment restrictions... when "laser tagged, guided bullets" come into use, I may change my opinion.

I have stated clearly my opinion... but that opinion ONLY relates to my practices... I do not shoot at extreme ranges on game, with guns or with bows... there is just too many variables that can result in a wounding loss... and nothing grieves me more than a wounding loss...
 
Brian46 said:
please explain how becoming a good marksmen is unfair to the animal.

Animals don't just appear at 1000yds in front of a guy sitting on a bench with rifle ready, it actually uses many more hunting talents than your average hunter uses in a season or has.

I bow and rifle hunt as well and have over 30 years of hunting experience so I know what skills are used and how much more you need to do/know for each type of hunting to make a humane kill to feed my family.

Lying in wait in a tree over a field or driving a truck around till you see one takes very little "hunting" skill compared to a long range hunt.
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Exactly.
 
track said:
I concur with B&C and their stance on long range shooting. They are a North American big game record club which by a long shot, pund intended, that overshadows all other big game clubs. B&C is a conservation group that wishes to primarily recognize the animal, and hunter. With society ever changing, they are trying to keep hunting traditional from pressures of individualism.
If a individual wishes to have self recognition of a long shot, a zoo shot animal, high fence animal or any other animal with no rules barred, then SCI is your source of entry.
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Did you really take a half kilometre shot on a buck and then turn around yesterday to say this? :) This is the ugly side of this, people cheering it in public, then the reality of what they do is completely different. I would applaud your shot track, as an excellent one and clearly within your ability, so how could this stance be taken now? I'm honestly interested in the justification, 565 yards is long range to anyone's measure.
 
Ardent said:
B&C is a private organisation, and like it or not just like CGN makes its own decisions. Most private clubs, including one or two I belong to, have some questionable stances. Personally, I'd like to see them to accept any legal method without prejudice. This said, I can see what they are trying to do, and that is remain a golden days organisation, we're merely seeing a very conservative stance from them and resistance to change.

My main problem with their stance here is it is so ambiguous. They likely wouldn't have a problem with my longest iron sighted double rifle shot, because it's just under 200 yards. Truth be told, I have an easier and more reliable time making a 500 yard shot with my scoped mountain rifle, and it seems they would be against the latter because it's more modern and uses a turreted scope. I've never shot or shot at anything bigger than wolves past 300, but it's just personal choice, I enjoy close and iron sights. Some like a different flavour and I've mellowed to the point if they're doing it well, and legally, what right to opinion do I have?
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Pretty much.
 
Ardent said:
Did you really take a half kilometre shot on a buck and then turn around yesterday to say this? :) This is the ugly side of this, people cheering it in public, then the reality of what they do is completely different. I would applaud your shot track, as an excellent one and clearly within your ability, so how could this stance be taken now? I'm honestly interested in the justification, 565 yards is long range to anyone's measure.
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I'm not really a long range guy but just following technology in the last 20 years I'd say the concept of where long range starts is shifting further from the line.

Pretty soon an average person will be able to afford technology that will allow a novice to range find, lock onto and then auto release the firing mechanism when the shot is aligned correctly.
The human element of judging a long shot will be mostly wind related.

It's hard not to take advantage of all that modern technology offers..... but it's nice to step away from it as well and get closer to the natural world.
 
sheephunter said:
I'm confused as to what their stance is.....
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They seem to think that if the animal can't see, hear or smell a hunter, then the hunter has an unfair advantage. They claim this is what happens at long range and then go on to say it doesn't matter if you are shooting a rifle or a bow or a handgun?

Their real issue is likely with people exceeding realistic ranges and then poor accuracy resulting in unnecessary suffering.
 
Can-down said:
They seem to think that if the animal can't see, hear or smell a hunter, then the hunter has an unfair advantage. They claim this is what happens at long range and then go on to say it doesn't matter if you are shooting a rifle or a bow or a handgun?
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Ya I kind of got that but where does that happen and how can it happen with a bow? Even a modest rifle shot is far beyond the longest bow shot. If I use my knowledge to stay downwind and conceal myself with camo is that unfair? I've been busted by wind and sight at well in excess of a kilometre....where is this definitive unfair advantage line?

Their real issue is likely with people exceeding realistic ranges and then poor accuracy resulting in unnecessary suffering.
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What's a realistic range?
 
bearkilr said:
My realistic range is the distance that I'm certain I can make a 100% kill shot. Things happen, everyone knows that, but I won't shoot if I think there's a chance I can't make a clean hit.
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I'd agree with that but that doesn't seem to be B&C's position...I think...I'm not sure...It could be....I don't think it is. Why so much hyperbole from them?
 
Can-down said:
I'm not really a long range guy but just following technology in the last 20 years I'd say the concept of where long range starts is shifting further from the line.

Pretty soon an average person will be able to afford technology that will allow a novice to range find, lock onto and then auto release the firing mechanism when the shot is aligned correctly.
The human element of judging a long shot will be mostly wind related.

It's hard not to take advantage of all that modern technology offers..... but it's nice to step away from it as well and get closer to the natural world.
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He apparently did it with a Ruger No.1 and standard scope, so 565 yards is still a very long stretch to anyone. I can agree with your sentiment, but his case used technology no better than has been available for decades. It was a good shot if he made it, but his position supporting B&C's admonishment of long range hunting begins to look pretty bigoted if he really did take a half kilometre shot in the field.
 
Ardent said:
Did you really take a half kilometre shot on a buck and then turn around yesterday to say this? :) This is the ugly side of this, people cheering it in public, then the reality of what they do is completely different. I would applaud your shot track, as an excellent one and clearly within your ability, so how could this stance be taken now? I'm honestly interested in the justification, 565 yards is long range to anyone's measure.
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I want to be fair to track... my recollection was fuzzy... so I went back and checked... the shot in his estimation was 450+ (unless there was a longer one on a pronghorn? track will be along to clarify, I am sure)... here is the thread (Ardent see the Opening Post);

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/990463-BBD-PIC-s
 
B&C has opened an impossible can of worms. LONG RANGE is a very personal opinion. I for one, define long range on many different things, calibre, shooting position, time of day, wind, range, quality of target ( moving, standing broadside, brush or trees, etc), weather conditions ( rain, snow, sunny etc) and temp. A long Range shot with my 303 savage with open sights, at a running deer in a snow storm, could be as little as 100 yards, while with my custom 7 mag or 338, on a sunny day with a elk standing broadside, LONG RANGE wouldn't be a consideration for me inside 500 yards. No your limits within the hunting situation your in, hunt within YOUR LIMITS.
 
I would never take a 450 yard shot.... but I have never been close to being presented with one...... where I hunt 250 after sneaking a long ways would be the most I would see....

As far as b and c.... quite frankly I think all of these orgs are a joke....

Quite frankly, and putting my flame suit on... milo's whitetail record is a joke..

It is all arbitrary and be happy with what you take... trophy is in the eye of the beholder
 
For anyone that didn't read the article, and there seem to be a few, they do state this:

The distance at which a shot is considered “long-range,” ethical, or unethical cannot be defined by specific yardages because this varies with each individual situation.

Basically what I think B&C is eluding to is the fact that there are many custom rifle manufacturers and scope manufacturers marketing their equipment as taking the expertise out of long range and making far shots available to the average hunter which they would otherwise never attempt. Many videos I've seen by these manufacturers would certainly affirm this.
Bottom line; they're a private club and have the right to make up their own rules. They've had some controversial topics over the years with usage on range finders, radio's, tracking collars, etc.

Personally, I've always considered B&C to be a showcase of exceptional specimens of North American game animals. The animals get my attention, not the hunters. I also applaud them for voicing their opinion, even if it's a bit outdated in some instances, but I can see where they're coming from in this case.
 
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