Bad News for Swiss Arms

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Caleb314 said:
This being Western first world they are probably getting paid 10 times what the norinco employes are making. So that doesn't help.
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Fixed it for you. This is a world wide problem, not just with Switzerland.
Swiss Arms problem is they have sat on their laurels and haven't developed new product with the rest of the industry.
 
Kampfhamster said:
quite a few eastern europe SWAT teams are looking for a replacement for their aging AK47's. They want something new, but they want to keep the caliber.
Beretta already brought out something in that caliber and also sold it.
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When your too good for your customers, your customers go else where.

I dont blame any country for hanging on to the 7.62x39 round, its well proven and cheap.
 
Maybe Norinco can make a Master-full Copy! .. ha ha ha .. Maybe they could buy all the equipment when SA tanks, like they did with the M14 :p
 
twyeh said:
And loosing the Canadian market would also hurt them even more now with all this BS scare tactics by our gmen.
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The Canadian market is so small it would be lucky to sell 200 firearms annually . It might possibly keep them in business for maybe 5 days ,Hardly worth the trouble and definitely not going to make or break the company .
 
Savage said:
The Canadian market is so small it would be lucky to sell 200 firearms annually . It might possibly keep them in business for maybe 5 days ,Hardly worth the trouble and definitely not going to make or break the company .
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$80,000 a year is somebody's salary...

Wait my math is off! $800K a year sounds like a little more than 5 days business for a 30 person company.
 
TV-PressPass said:
$80,000 a year is somebody's salary...

Wait my math is off! $800K a year sounds like a little more than 5 days business for a 30 person company.
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I suspect that you are basing your claim of $800,00.00 on retail prices not what the company actually sells them for not including tariffs and duties or shipping . If you were to base this on actual costs per unit that they were sold for to the importer for I think you are realistically looking at maybe total sale worth $ 350,000.00 to $400.000 .00 per year. Hardly enough to keep a 30 person company in business when you factor in employee salaries ,bonuses ,benefit plans ,utilities,taxes ,equipment repair and purchases ,product R&D , warranty claims /repairs and advertising it might cover a perhaps a months operating costs
 
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I'm pleased you posted a mirror to my own comment. Who the hell thinks its ok to make Chinese slave wage just so you can buy a cheap gun? If I pay $329 for a Norinco 1911 (like I did last week) I expect a #### gun that functions but is as rough as a late night in Glasgow. And it is. Rough.
My Swiss Arms rifle wasn't cheap but I received a gun of superior quality and design. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! And workers deserve a good fair wage.




nullshine said:
I know, right? DAMN those Swiss for wanting to make a livable wage!
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twyeh said:
And loosing the Canadian market would also hurt them even more now with all this BS scare tactics by our gmen.
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Laugh2
There have been approx 1200 Swiss Arms Black Special and Classic Green sold in Canada in the last 12 years. That will hardly affect any firearms manufacturer.
Maybe if Canadians weren't so cheap and constantly looking for a $1000 alternative these rifles would be everywhere and the RCMP wouldn't be picking on them since there would be more people figting back when they try to take them away.
 
cr5 said:
Laugh2
There have been approx 1200 Swiss Arms Black Special and Classic Green sold in Canada in the last 12 years. That will hardly affect any firearms manufacturer.
Maybe if Canadians weren't so cheap and constantly looking for a $1000 alternative these rifles would be everywhere and the RCMP wouldn't be picking on them since there would be more people figting back when they try to take them away.
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The problem with these rifles, although a most excellent one, is it remains one that uses a stamped upper & lower receiver and therefore shouldn't cost so much. The other thing is that the average Canadian doesn't have the disposable income that most of us Alberta residents have, so it's really not an issue of being cheap, it's that Canadians can't actually afford it!
 
VLT79 said:
The problem with these rifles, although a most excellent one, is it remains one that uses a stamped upper & lower receiver and therefore shouldn't cost so much. The other thing is that the average Canadian doesn't have the disposable income that most of us Alberta residents have, so it's really not an issue of being cheap, it's that Canadians can't actually afford it!
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Maybe the average Canadian but I think you underestimate the amount of money a lot of people have. I've seen numerous posts of guys from all provinces who have high end black and precision rifles costing well over $3000, also think about how many Tavor's and XCR's and ACR's are out there, they aren't much cheaper than a used SA.

I do agree that it isn't worth $3000+, I wasn't impressed with the one I had and sold it. Very well built but I hated that there was so much POI shift depending how it was supported. Guess there is too much flex in the stamped receiver.
 
VLT79 said:
The problem with these rifles, although a most excellent one, is it remains one that uses a stamped upper & lower receiver and therefore shouldn't cost so much. The other thing is that the average Canadian doesn't have the disposable income that most of us Alberta residents have, so it's really not an issue of being cheap, it's that Canadians can't actually afford it!
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Yup. If it wasn't for its NR status, I bet we'd have 200 in Canada instead of 1200.
 
cr5 said:
I do agree that it isn't worth $3000+, I wasn't impressed with the one I had and sold it. Very well built but I hated that there was so much POI shift depending how it was supported. Guess there is too much flex in the stamped receiver.
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You say that In every SAN thread. If you buy a non free floated rifle, you can expect impact to change when you apply pressure to the handguard or even worse, use a bipod. The Swiss military uses the bipod to keep the rifle out of the mud and snow, that's about it. The whole concept of shooting such rifles off a bipod is retarded. Fire off the magazine or support the base of the handguard.
The AR15A1 and even the A2 will shift POI when inconsistent forces are applied to the barrel or handguard. Even our C7's will do this, it has nothing to do with flex in the receiver (there is none).

If I recall you tried one brand of ammo (AE) and your particular barrel did not like it. This can happen from barrel to barrel, they like different things.

Lucky for me mine loves AE, but there is no way to know when one buys a rifle.

American Eagle 100 meters shot with Acog.


At 300 meters 15 shot group American Eagle.



388 meters 10 rounds American Eagle.

 
Yup. Any non free-floated rifle will have will have a POI shift upwards when an upward load is placed on the bottom of the barrel. The barrel flexes. All materials will deflect a minuscule amount no matter how small the load.
 
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