Baffled: Pistol Accuracy for beginner - HELP!

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milk

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Calgary...yee haw!
I'm a newbie with handguns and am about to purchase the first 9mm pistol and I am completely baffled. I've gone to ranges and shot appx. 300 rounds using various range guns. So far I've narrowed it down to M&P9, Glock 17, Sig 226, and H&K P30L.

Thing is, when I shot the first three, I found that price has not a lot to do with accuracy(for my average sized hands and below average skill), and in fact, I can shoot consistently smaller groups with the M&P9 compared to both Glock & P226. I haven't seen a P30L yet... so haven't been able to fire one, only a 1911-type HK.

Also, I noticed that I tend to shoot to the lower-left when I'm having trouble(with Glock & P226).

Is this something that is common with new shooters? Does the size of the grip(double stack or not) have anything to do with it? Is there a compelling reason to spend double for Sig or HK compared to M&P9? I expected better results with the Sig & HK, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

I also recall that my shots were better with a Beretta 94 compared to the Glock 17.

I was about to order a gun, but now I'm stuck. Help!
 
Go to this site

http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf.html

Halfway down are targets that tell you what you are doing wrong (you didn't say if you are left or right handed).

You want a quality gun, but I think it has more to do with what feels comfortable in your hands than $$$ spent. I finally got to the range tonight and was shooting one of the gun clubs pistols, a nice Ruger .22 revolver. I liked it, but was all over the map with the thing. Same with a .22 auto. Then I got loaned some ammo and was finally able to try my new 1911. My first 3 shots were near bullseyes at 25 yards! So I think its what feels natural and what you want to be shooting that makes the difference.
 
Shoot low to the left is common for a new right hand shooter, nothing worry about. And you are right, price can never related to accuracy. Some people good at this gun but crap with the other. If you found M&P float your boat, go ahead, no shooter will stick with one gun forever, you may end up have load of pistols in your safe.

Trigun
 
You make it seem like you can only have one? I have been doing this just over a year and have been through 6 handguns. I have currently settled on 2. Think of it like you are just borrowing the gun. You can always sell them again and not lose too much cash on the deal. I have after a year settled on a G17, after the owning an SR9, CZ, and 1911, and a friend buying a faulty M&P. Oh and the other is a .44 mag Ruger Redhawk just to put a smile on my face.
 
my first range trip, shot 5 different handguns, ALL shots went lower-left. i even got pissed off and aimed to get a few shots in upper-right, and..... nope, no dice. lower left it is! :p must be a newbie signature thing...
 
Are you a right or a leftie ??
two hand grip or one

off hand i would say a righty with too much finger in the triger anticipating recoil

but when you ask a question you need to give us more info

if a gun points wrong for you you will never be able to shoot it well just like a pair of shoes if they do not fit, you wont have any fun

pick a gun that points correctly and are you going to just target shoot or do competitions in the future so what type of shooting are you going to do now and 2-3 years down the line
 
Thank you for the targets... I am right handed. I found that the rifle shooting breathing method doesn't work for me with pistols. It looks like I'm not squeezing the trigger and likely hitting it.

At half price of the P226, I'm almost ready to order the M&P9, especially since I can shoot 1/4 the size of groups of the P226. Why not Berettas? I heard that the Glocks, Sigs, M&P are the new stable of pistols and a much better than the Berettas & other 1911 design pistols. Is that true or a pile of ....?

And why am I all over the place with the Glock? Is the accuracy of M&P due to the grip size? And is the accuracy with Beretta due to the mass of the all steel frame? Is the weight of the pistol a factor much like it is with a rifle?

Sorry for all the questions. I agree I'll end up with more than one pistol down the road... Any thoughts on smaller Sig, HK? P30L?
 
Trigun said:
......no shooter will stick with one gun forever, you may end up have load of pistols in your safe. Trigun
Click to expand...

So so true!!!

For the OP - stick with the M&P if it feels right and, more importantly, if you shoot it the best. Feel and confidence are important to all us shooters. Start out with what feels the most comfortable. The other thing you are doing right is shooting what you plan to buy. That alone will steer you into the right decision. Post your purchase and let us know your range results. Happy shooting!!!! :D
 
just having some fun said:
Are you a right or a leftie ??
two hand grip or one

off hand i would say a righty with too much finger in the triger anticipating recoil

but when you ask a question you need to give us more info

if a gun points wrong for you you will never be able to shoot it well just like a pair of shoes if they do not fit, you wont have any fun

pick a gun that points correctly and are you going to just target shoot or do competitions in the future so what type of shooting are you going to do now and 2-3 years down the line
Click to expand...


Righty with a two handed grip. Way lower left hit with the first shot on double action, much better but still lower left on subsequent single action shots. Grip is both thumb parallel, pointed 10 degrees up towards the mag release(on sig), stance: shoulder width, left foot forward, right foot at right angle, body about 45 degrees to target, left arm bent(like rifle grip), right arm almost straight. When I peer through the sights I see a lot of movement(at least compared to my rifle shooting). I'm also wiped out after a box of 50 rounds... I'm thinking I'm doing something wrong.

I also got pissed off and tried to shoot top right - didn't work. Why would it improve so dramatically with the M&P9? Next best was Beretta(all metal), then HK USP. G17 & P226 was about as bad as my wife... embarrasing!
 
I bought a Ruger p89 and recently upgraded to a Glock 17 which I really like. I also have a Browning Buckmark UDX .22lr which is awesome. I have tried a Baby Eagle 9mm, SIg 226 elite 9mm and found those and my Glock shot really nice groups. Took awhile to get used to my Glock trigger though. The baby eagle is really nice to shoot, heavy frame. Go for comfort and a quality pistol and just practice. CZ are accurate too. Line your sights up at 6 oclock of the target, and close your left eye. Ive found that helps alot. Do not focus directly on the target, focus on your lining up your sights. Also make sure your targets are set at shoulder height. These things have helped me alot. My .02
 
just having some fun said:
Are you a right or a leftie ??
two hand grip or one

off hand i would say a righty with too much finger in the triger anticipating recoil

but when you ask a question you need to give us more info

if a gun points wrong for you you will never be able to shoot it well just like a pair of shoes if they do not fit, you wont have any fun

pick a gun that points correctly and are you going to just target shoot or do competitions in the future so what type of shooting are you going to do now and 2-3 years down the line
Click to expand...


I'm interested in target shooting, but more for the science of it, not for competition. I've done some rifle target stuff at the farm with competition scope, but this hand gun target shooting is a completely different animal!

Thanks for asking great questions... & advice.
 
when a right handed shooter is shooting low to the left it is because he/she is squeezing with the whole hand rather than just the trigger finger. one method to stop this is to hold the firearm a little tighter, then the whole hand will not tighten because it is already tight. also your arm should be held straight out in a locked position. no this is not common to new shooters, I have been shooting hand guns for almost fifty years and I still make this mistake at times especially in rapid fire.
Brownie
 
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If you have access to a snp cap or dummy round throw that randomly into your mag. It will give you an indication of a flinch/anticipating recoil. I find that when you are new you tend to have the wrong reaction to recoil by being to active in trying to nullify it. Also ensure your stance/gtrip is good to go by having your eyes closed and bringing the pistol into the position that feels right. If you do not bring it naturally onto the target by doing that adjust your stance and practice until this becomes natural. I have the glock and 226 and USP and I find I shoot best with the 226. I like the ergonomics of the P30 and may pick one up.
 
SLANTO said:
If you have access to a snp cap or dummy round throw that randomly into your mag. It will give you an indication of a flinch/anticipating recoil. I find that when you are new you tend to have the wrong reaction to recoil by being to active in trying to nullify it. Also ensure your stance/gtrip is good to go by having your eyes closed and bringing the pistol into the position that feels right. If you do not bring it naturally onto the target by doing that adjust your stance and practice until this becomes natural. I have the glock and 226 and USP and I find I shoot best with the 226. I like the ergonomics of the P30 and may pick one up.
Click to expand...

Great tip. I'll pick up a dummy round... It's good to learn to handle a dud round as well.

Why does 226 shoot so well do you think? Every gun guy in Calgary is saying 226 or P30. What do you like about P30 other than the ergonomics? Only HK I have experience with is the USP.
 
Adam F85 said:
I bought a Ruger p89 and recently upgraded to a Glock 17 which I really like. I also have a Browning Buckmark UDX .22lr which is awesome. I have tried a Baby Eagle 9mm, SIg 226 elite 9mm and found those and my Glock shot really nice groups. Took awhile to get used to my Glock trigger though. The baby eagle is really nice to shoot, heavy frame. Go for comfort and a quality pistol and just practice. CZ are accurate too. Line your sights up at 6 oclock of the target, and close your left eye. Ive found that helps alot. Do not focus directly on the target, focus on your lining up your sights. Also make sure your targets are set at shoulder height. These things have helped me alot. My .02
Click to expand...

concentrate on the FRONT site, Let the rest blur a bit. Bring the pistol up to the target instead of trying to hold it for extended times.
 
Any and all of the guns you mentioned will all be more than accurate enough. Your low and left issue isn't any of the guns, it's strictly you on your way to developing a flinch and not holding the gun right and perhaps not using enough finger onto the trigger (assuming right handed here).

Hey, if it was easy where would the challenge be.... :D

Most of it has already been said by many of us in that thread that Sandroad linked to above. Check it out.
 
Also, make sure you are shooting targets at about 10m away so you can see your skill + the firearm and remove the ammunition from the variable.

You'll get a good idea of what you are doing at this distance.
 
milk said:
Righty with a two handed grip. Way lower left hit with the first shot on double action, much better but still lower left on subsequent single action shots. Grip is both thumb parallel, pointed 10 degrees up towards the mag release(on sig), stance: shoulder width, left foot forward, right foot at right angle, body about 45 degrees to target, left arm bent(like rifle grip), right arm almost straight. When I peer through the sights I see a lot of movement(at least compared to my rifle shooting). I'm also wiped out after a box of 50 rounds... I'm thinking I'm doing something wrong.

I also got pissed off and tried to shoot top right - didn't work. Why would it improve so dramatically with the M&P9? Next best was Beretta(all metal), then HK USP. G17 & P226 was about as bad as my wife... embarrasing!
Click to expand...

1) Try keeping your body more square to the target and using a more isoceles position for your arms.
2) You will wobble a LOT more with a pistol than a long gun, don't worry. Practice will help with that.
3) Try to relax, you are too tense if you are bagged after 50 rounds of 9mm.
4) If the M&P9 fits you the best and you shoot it well, then that is the gun for you.
5) Do LOTS of dry firing at home, concentrating on the front sight and work on keeping the gun steady through the trigger pull and break. Once you can dry fire and keep it steady, you can do it at the range.
6) Watch this video by Todd Jarret on shooting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48 Search on his name on YouTube and you will find a bunch more. Also search on "IPSC shooting" and there are many instructional videos to watch.

Mark
 
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