Ballard #3 Gallery - Advice Needed

[gabrielguitars]

Hey guys, I just acquired a Ballard #3 Gallery rifle from the States. It is an interesting piece for a few reasons. First, it has the 30" barrel more common to the early guns, but has the later-style curve on the top of the action. Also, it is marked on the top barrel flat, "rebored and rif'l'd by J.Stevens A & T Co. Chicopee Falls." It seems this was done by Stevens before they were even a firearm manufacturer! Anyway, it is now in .25 Stevens rimfire. It has an excellent bore, and all is functional. I've lightly cleaned it up, un-seized the gallery vernier sight, and re-oiled. Anyway, I am trying to decide what to do with it. I am thinking of changing it to centrefire (very easy, and does not change anything, just a new replacement part), and re-chambering it to .25-25 Stevens. I had also considered rebarreling it to .40-70 Sharps straight, but the design of the extractor tells me to keep it small. The other possibility is to try and create some centrefire version of the .25 Stevens rimfire, or just sell the gun as is to a collector. Opinions???

 

[wr.sainsbury]

ballard

looks to have the usual age defects common to these. looks like an octagon to round barrel rather than full octagon as in the #3 gallery. perhaps stevens did more than just rebore. flaydermans has good info on these firearms and they comment that these should have an external extractor mounted on the right side of the frame. i have a few in different models and they all seem to have some unique feature acquired over the 120 years or so. regards, bill

 

[trevj]

Hey guys, I just acquired a Ballard #3 Gallery rifle from the States. It is an interesting piece for a few reasons. First, it has the 30" barrel more common to the early guns, but has the later-style curve on the top of the action. Also, it is marked on the top barrel flat, "rebored and rif'l'd by J.Stevens A & T Co. Chicopee Falls." It seems this was done by Stevens before they were even a firearm manufacturer! Anyway, it is now in .25 Stevens rimfire. It has an excellent bore, and all is functional. I've lightly cleaned it up, un-seized the gallery vernier sight, and re-oiled. Anyway, I am trying to decide what to do with it. I am thinking of changing it to centrefire (very easy, and does not change anything, just a new replacement part), and re-chambering it to .25-25 Stevens. I had also considered rebarreling it to .40-70 Sharps straight, but the design of the extractor tells me to keep it small. The other possibility is to try and create some centrefire version of the .25 Stevens rimfire, or just sell the gun as is to a collector. Opinions???

Sell it to someone willing to pay too much for it, and buy something that can shoot.



How do you get the "before they were a firearms manufacturer' from a stamp that reads the way it does? A&T stands for Arms and Tool, IIRC. It is the same marking that they used for pretty much the whole time they were in business.
At one time, reboring was a pretty common part of the business. They even hired Harry Pope to work for them for a while. But it could have been rebored at about any time in it's life.

Did it start out as a .22? Is the breech block already modified? Is it even the original? (No, I can't tell either! )

I'd be looking along the lines of a new barrel, probably in .22 rimfire, some nice wood, and a bit of custom metal. Setting this action up in a round that has a bit of power behind it, is a risk, IMO, best avoided.

Better to leave it with it's period modifications and sell it, or swap out the barrels and keep it with, than to get too wild modifying it, I think.

Cheers
Trev

 

[mooncoon]

According to Flaydermann, your gun was made between 1876 and 1891. Stevens A&T started in 1886 (under that name) and the famous Stevens Pope barrels would have dated after 1901.
In many ways I would lean towards keeping it as is and shooting it as a 25 rimfire. A bit awkward but doable. I suspect the rifling twist would not permit heavy slugs in the various 25 centerfire cartridge and the 25-25 seems a dubious choice because it is such a long and awkward case, assuming that you could find a source.

cheers mooncoon

 

[powderman]

You do indeed have a No.3 Gallery rifle. The groove in the top flat of the receiver is a give away. Nice find. Ballards were manufactured with both forged and cast receivers. It would be very unusual to find a No.2 or No.3 with a cast receiver. Most of the time the cast receivers will have a three line marking on the left side of the frame, while the forged receivers will have a two line marking. To tell for certain if your Ballard has a cast or forged receiver, remove the breachblock. Inside, the cast receivers will have a rough "cast" feel/look. The forged receivers will have a machined feel/look. In addition, the cast receivers are hollow under the barrel shank, the forged receivers are solid under the barrel shank.

The No. 3 had a unique two piece extractor instead of the usual one piece found on other Ballards.

The cast frame Ballards are not as strong as the ones with a forged frames. You might be in for a surprise if you rebarrel to 40-70SS. I would suggest you stick to nothing more powerful than 44-40 loaded with black powder.

J Stevens A & T rebarreld many rifles from other manufacturers of the period. The famed barrel maker, Harry Pope, worked for them at one time. Hope this helps.

Regards,
Powderman

 

[41 Colt]

Changing it to .25 Centerfire would lose it's antique status if it currently has it.

 

[Willy Tincup]

Sell it on EE and buy a shooter.

 

[david doyle]

and buy a shooter.

It is a shooter! No more or less a shooter then any of the percussion, flinter, CF and RF arms out there.

With the mention of Mr Pope above I would try loading it pope style. Insert a bullet in the lands, push a primer into the offset primer case you made up (lots of info on here) then spoon into the case a charge of powder. Now insert the case. aim well and start shooting clover leafs. You should need no more then a handful of cases to shoot all day non stop.

If you must sell it please PM me I think it would be a very swell gun to own for targets and small game.

 

[ben hunchak]

I'd convert to 25/20 SS or 25/21 Stevens and be happy, Ballards were always known for top accuracy, it's quite a find and if it were me I would keep it and enjoy shooting it.

 

[H Wally]

It is a shooter! No more or less a shooter then any of the percussion, flinter, CF and RF arms out there.

With the mention of Mr Pope above I would try loading it pope style. Insert a bullet in the lands, push a primer into the offset primer case you made up (lots of info on here) then spoon into the case a charge of powder. Now insert the case. aim well and start shooting clover leafs. You should need no more then a handful of cases to shoot all day non stop.

If you must sell it please PM me I think it would be a very swell gun to own for targets and small game.

I like this idea - cheaper than buying the no-alteration centerfire part, and less hassle with making strange ammo.

As long as it's left as is (no permanent alterations I mean, new parts/new centerfire assy being fine) I can endorse it. Looks like a fun gun!

I have a suspicion that most people voting didn't read your post and only read the poll - hence the overwhelming vote to leave it alone, because they think you're going to attack it with a hack saw

 

[vagrantviking]

I think I would agree with david doyle and H Wally. Either reload some .25 cases with the offset blank conversion or the Pope load trick as mentioned.

I am generally the sort to make a gun usable over having it look pretty and never get used but in this case I think it might be a bit of a shame to pull it apart and make any serious changes.

Pushing in a slug and then using a case filled right to the mouth with black and a card would probably give you all the jam that you would be able to make use of in a barrel that probably has rather slow rifling to start with. Start with a short bullet and work up in length to see what shoots best.

 

[powderman]

My apologies for the misinformation in my last post. I should have said: It would be very unusual to find a No.2 or No.3 with a FORGED receiver.

I am not a gunsmith, but after some thought, the groove in the top flat of the receiver combined with the CAST receiver usually found on No.3 Ballards, might make it unsafe for even black powder 44-40 loads. The No.3's from the factory were only chambered for .22 rimfire. J Stevens A & T did rebore some for the .25 Stevens rimfire like your rifle.

Regards,
Powderman

 

[tactical870]

You can insert a round ball, then load a .25 ramset blank (in varying powers) to shoot it as is.

 

[gabrielguitars]

Lots of good ideas, thanks guys! I definitely had decided against anything larger than, say, the .25-25 Stevens. It seems that the .22 hornet case could be used to duplicate a .25 Stevens rimfire, in centrefire version, but that does cause a conundrum for the antiue status. If I simply switched out the rimfire pin for one in centrefire, it is not a permanent modification, and should therefore not change the status. I will continue to think on this.

 

[cdnrokon]

Just wnted to thank you and show all what can be done with some time and a little $$ I took this rifle and changed it a little bought a GreenMountain #2 profile full octagon barrel and new treebone wood and had a fellow shooter and excellent gunsmith put it together this is what it looks like so far with out finnish.

[/IMG]

Hey guys, I just acquired a Ballard #3 Gallery rifle from the States. It is an interesting piece for a few reasons. First, it has the 30" barrel more common to the early guns, but has the later-style curve on the top of the action. Also, it is marked on the top barrel flat, "rebored and rif'l'd by J.Stevens A & T Co. Chicopee Falls." It seems this was done by Stevens before they were even a firearm manufacturer! Anyway, it is now in .25 Stevens rimfire. It has an excellent bore, and all is functional. I've lightly cleaned it up, un-seized the gallery vernier sight, and re-oiled. Anyway, I am trying to decide what to do with it. I am thinking of changing it to centrefire (very easy, and does not change anything, just a new replacement part), and re-chambering it to .25-25 Stevens. I had also considered rebarreling it to .40-70 Sharps straight, but the design of the extractor tells me to keep it small. The other possibility is to try and create some centrefire version of the .25 Stevens rimfire, or just sell the gun as is to a collector. Opinions???

 

[gabrielguitars]

I think I hate you now!. What calibre did you go with, .22 LR? Looks great, BTW.

 

[cdnrokon]

yes 22LR i will be shooting this rifle in our local 22 silhouette matches i will post some pictures when it is all done and has the mva sights on it.