I have experienced many instances where a deer or elk folded at the shot.In almost all instances,the cartridge was the 7mmstw(140gr at 3500fps) or the 300RUM(180gr at 3380fps) using either a TSX,or a Ballistic Tip.Game shot with Partitions,often ran up to 100 yards.Not one animal shot with the STW or RUM using the Ballistic Tip or TSX/TSX made it 50 yards,with most dropping on the spot,or within a few steps.
Bang Flop: Lungs??
- Thread starter yidava25
- Start date
I have had a quite a number of bang/flops with deer, and moose, but the majority of animals were found within 50yds of where they were hit.
From what I have experienced shoulder/spine hits are more apt to anchor an animal than heart/lung hits.
That being said, I have had bang/flops with broad side heart/lung shots. All of those came from bullets with rapid expansion. I have never once had a bang/flop broad side lung hit with a Barnes-X, or Nosler partition. These controlled expantion bullets IMO do work great, but shine best on larger animals, and when bone hits are factored in.
From what I have experienced shoulder/spine hits are more apt to anchor an animal than heart/lung hits.
That being said, I have had bang/flops with broad side heart/lung shots. All of those came from bullets with rapid expansion. I have never once had a bang/flop broad side lung hit with a Barnes-X, or Nosler partition. These controlled expantion bullets IMO do work great, but shine best on larger animals, and when bone hits are factored in.
- Location
- Eastern Edge of the Foothills
A few years ago I shot a good sized Muley buck. It was walking up a steep slope, and I was across the deep coulee, and a bit behind it. My .280 was shooting 140gr Sierras at over 3000 fps. The buck never took a step, collapsed, and then rolled all the way to the bottom of the very deep ravine-like coulee.
Over the years I've shot a bunch of deer. This season it was 5, same as it was last season. If I do my part right I expect them to fall dead right there... Maybe within 5 steps. This year I shot across a small coulee at a WT buck that had no clue I was there. It was a perfect double lung shot, but it was on the higher side of the lungs. 7WSM shooting 150 gr fusion bullets at 3200 fps [chronied]. It collapsed like lightning hit it, but when I got up to it, it was still able to move its head. It was struggling, but couldn't move from the neck down. I finished it with my knife. I thought I must have hit it in the spine, from the way it was acting, but the autopsy revealed there was no direct hit to the spine. Must've been some sort of hydrostatic shock or something that disrupted the CNS.
Most of my hits have been either right in the boiler room, and they don't run, they maybe take a couple steps at most. Or in the neck or spine, in which case they aren't going anywhere, except maybe roll down a hill. Or I didn't lead a running shot far enough, and I take out the back hip [yes, it's happened a couple times]. Still, they can't go far when that happens.
Over the years I've shot a bunch of deer. This season it was 5, same as it was last season. If I do my part right I expect them to fall dead right there... Maybe within 5 steps. This year I shot across a small coulee at a WT buck that had no clue I was there. It was a perfect double lung shot, but it was on the higher side of the lungs. 7WSM shooting 150 gr fusion bullets at 3200 fps [chronied]. It collapsed like lightning hit it, but when I got up to it, it was still able to move its head. It was struggling, but couldn't move from the neck down. I finished it with my knife. I thought I must have hit it in the spine, from the way it was acting, but the autopsy revealed there was no direct hit to the spine. Must've been some sort of hydrostatic shock or something that disrupted the CNS.
Most of my hits have been either right in the boiler room, and they don't run, they maybe take a couple steps at most. Or in the neck or spine, in which case they aren't going anywhere, except maybe roll down a hill. Or I didn't lead a running shot far enough, and I take out the back hip [yes, it's happened a couple times]. Still, they can't go far when that happens.
I've been super lucky with whitetail. The furthest one has gone is 90 paces (yards or whatever you want to call it). And that was with my bow. And a doe spooked him into running. He would have died on the spot if she wasn't there. 
My first buck - bang flop 22-250 spine shot (not my choice but the choice of the foliage) I was young...
The last four does I've shot were all bang flops. One managed to make it about 10 feet but I'm almost positive that was due to a slide downhill. They were all taken with a .308 and all hit in the heart/lungs. Mostly both. The cartridge I am in love with. Federal blue boxes =
One of the best feelings when hunting is seeing that deer drop right where it was standing. Like others have said though, make sure it's down. Do the 25-40min wait. I have tracked friends/family's wounded deer and I doubt it's any more fun when you made the shot.
Go .308!
I forgot about my doe charge experience. I was muzzleloading and snuck up on a couple of does. I wasn't really planning on shooting any of them. I just wanted to see if it could be done. I was about 50 yards away (in an open field) when it was getting time to head back home. I stood up expecting them to just run off. The biggest doe started to run right for me. I barely had time to raise my rifle but I shot it in the neck and it went down in a heap. It literally went back on it's hind legs and fell backwards. The deer ended up about 10 yards from my feet. The shot hit the jugular, windpipe, and spine. It was my "perfect shot" in an imperfect situation.
My first buck - bang flop 22-250 spine shot (not my choice but the choice of the foliage) I was young...
The last four does I've shot were all bang flops. One managed to make it about 10 feet but I'm almost positive that was due to a slide downhill. They were all taken with a .308 and all hit in the heart/lungs. Mostly both. The cartridge I am in love with. Federal blue boxes =
One of the best feelings when hunting is seeing that deer drop right where it was standing. Like others have said though, make sure it's down. Do the 25-40min wait. I have tracked friends/family's wounded deer and I doubt it's any more fun when you made the shot.
Go .308!
I forgot about my doe charge experience. I was muzzleloading and snuck up on a couple of does. I wasn't really planning on shooting any of them. I just wanted to see if it could be done. I was about 50 yards away (in an open field) when it was getting time to head back home. I stood up expecting them to just run off. The biggest doe started to run right for me. I barely had time to raise my rifle but I shot it in the neck and it went down in a heap. It literally went back on it's hind legs and fell backwards. The deer ended up about 10 yards from my feet. The shot hit the jugular, windpipe, and spine. It was my "perfect shot" in an imperfect situation.
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I can concur had that happen a few weeks ago. Done like dinner. 50 cal inline. Hornady sst 250 grain. I guess he never flopped ran 20 feet.
Textbook impact just behind the left shoulder right into the vitals with 300 Win Mag 150gr PRVI at 150 yards. Entrance hole was about 3/4". Deer took off and ran 100 yards before falling. Heart and lungs were pudding. Go figure.
Textbook missing the mark and hitting in the neck at 150 yards with 300 Win Mag 150gr PRVI. Deer fell on the spot. Lungs and heart 100% intact. I think I scared it to death. Both impact and exit hole were tiny.
Textbook missing the mark and hitting in the neck at 150 yards with 300 Win Mag 150gr PRVI. Deer fell on the spot. Lungs and heart 100% intact. I think I scared it to death. Both impact and exit hole were tiny.
I've had three whitetail bang flops in the past 20+ years.
The first one, sixteen years ago, was a high spine hit, purely a fluke as he was bounding in front of me, hounds in tow.
The second was the day after the first, a heart shot that was running full out, and did a somersault and tumbled into a ravine.
The third was last year, it was a buck that I hit as a double lung shot, with my 6.5X55, and he went down right there, thrashed for less than five seconds and stopped moving. When I opened the chest cavity it made a pop, and one of the lungs was about the size of a grapefruit, a la tension pneumothorax. It was pretty neat.
The first one, sixteen years ago, was a high spine hit, purely a fluke as he was bounding in front of me, hounds in tow.
The second was the day after the first, a heart shot that was running full out, and did a somersault and tumbled into a ravine.
The third was last year, it was a buck that I hit as a double lung shot, with my 6.5X55, and he went down right there, thrashed for less than five seconds and stopped moving. When I opened the chest cavity it made a pop, and one of the lungs was about the size of a grapefruit, a la tension pneumothorax. It was pretty neat.
I always shoot heart/lung, just behind the leg (try not to ruin meat). Out of the 15 or so, maybe 4 - 5 were DRT, no spine damage. The rest drop within 40 yards. My theory is that the shock of the bullet can knock their lights out so they lay unconscious until they bleed out internally. In the ones that drop right away, the chest cavity is usually just a soupy mess.
I just got a small whitetail buck last weekend. He jumped on impact and landed on his back with all four legs in the air, twitched a couple times and was done. Used a 25-06 with 117gr soft points. When I opened him up the heart was almost completely missing.
Very similar to my small buck this past week - in low on the chest behind the left leg as it was walking, through and through with a 150 grain Nosler ballistic tip in 30-06 from about 40 yards. Lung soup, but it did manage to run for approx 30 yds before piling up. Just had a little bit left in the tank I guess.
My caribou from this September ran at full speed for 20-30 yards before dropping. The 165 gr Speer bullet had chopped off the top half of his heart, and remarkably, he was still alive when I got to him. I guess my point is, that you can't predict a "bang flop" unless its a CNS hit, and most of the time, you don't really need one anyway. Any solid hit to the vitals is going to produce the same result ultimately and there's no need to get worried because you didn't get a "bang flop". Too many people keep shooting because the animal doesn't drop stone dead on the spot.
In my opinion, it depends on the animal and their current state. If they are already spooked and running, the odds of dropping them on the spot are slim. I've watched deer that were hit in the vitals run until they hit a barbed wire fence. They are pretty much dead on their hooves, but adreniline seems to keep them going (unless they are hit in the spine).
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
shot 2 moose thru the lungs that dropped in place, both calves so that may have something to do with it.
Shot a bull same way but it took about 3 steps before it folded up.
I've had many more moose run 10-30m after being hit in the lungs.
Rifles used 308, 7mmRM and 300WM
now the 300WM will bang flop deer, but a lot of those will still run a bit (except the head shot ones )
Shot a bull same way but it took about 3 steps before it folded up.
I've had many more moose run 10-30m after being hit in the lungs.
Rifles used 308, 7mmRM and 300WM
now the 300WM will bang flop deer, but a lot of those will still run a bit (except the head shot ones
)The only way they'll drop in their tracks is if you take a neck shot and sever the spine or spinalcord. After a vitals shot, heart and lungs, they'll always run for a bit until they bleed out inside, I find it makes for nice eating meat. Cheers.
