Bayonets.....But why?

Maple Leaf Pilgrim said:
After a few weeks in the field, the edge on your RMFK is as about as useful as a PONTI in the same joint. They get used hard and they dull quickly. Many a time I used mine to dig holes in the field, it's why most of the knife fighting training centres around thrusts, the point can be a fair bit gone and you can still use it. The edge on the other hand...

That's another thing, in all my time in service I was only ever issued "Rifle Mountable Fighting Knives", never bayonets, but we were always forgiven for calling them such. Anybody else?

-S.
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Knife fighting is all about the point for the same reason the Romans used a short sword and dagger rather than a long sword. Stabbing is more likely to inflict immediately lethal wounds than slashing. Slashes cut skin and penetrate to vital organs little, stabs penetrate deeply and are far more likely to inflict serious injury.

Also, I was issued a bayonet. Never a fighting knife that I could put on the end of my bang stick...
 
WeatherdoG said:
Knife fighting is all about the point for the same reason the Romans used a short sword and dagger rather than a long sword. Stabbing is more likely to inflict immediately lethal wounds than slashing. Slashes cut skin and penetrate to vital organs little, stabs penetrate deeply and are far more likely to inflict serious injury.

Also, I was issued a bayonet. Never a fighting knife that I could put on the end of my bang stick...
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We got the whole, "you can't sharpen a bayonet, but you can sharpen a knife that also fits on your rifle" thing

My training involved a lot of grappling as well as using the point. We found that cutting was as effective as stabbing but due to the fact an edge dulls quickly through use and abuse in the field, the basis of of the designs of contemporary fighting knives focuses on the point. Knife cuts are effective and very deadly, very quickly, provided accuracy and a sharp edge. The Roman Legions' Gladii in most of its iterations were very effective cutters by the way, their very shape was more for the short chop in formation using shields than the thrust, that was what they used the pilum (their primary weapon) for. As for the long sword, it is for the most part a far more devastating weapon than any short thrusting blade, a properly wielded long sword can be used to cleave an unproofed man into parts very quickly (literally less time than it takes to aim and squeeze a trigger), but that is a set of wounding mechanisms similar to comparing the terminal ballistics of pistols to rifles.

-S.
 
pbr streetgang said:
If you're at the point where you need to use a bayonet on your C9, chances are that your already %#!?. That's when you radio the JTAC and give him your position.
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Hell, there is record of a Gurkha using the tripod of his L7 to top a few muj as they attempted to overrun his position. Calling CAS on your own grid is bad form...

-S.
 
The bayonet has many uses on the modern battlefield.

1 There is the cqb option. Gives you better stand off than a regular knife and increased thrusting power.

2 It can be used for checking door ways and window openings for trip wires and other booby traps.

3 It can also be used when dealing with a large crowd. By fixing the bayonet on the rifle you can use it to advance a stretched out roll of razor wire towards the protesters.

Not to mention the drill and ceremonial purposes as well and when not mounted on the rifle as a knife and as a probe for mine clearing.
 
21st Century Bayonet Charges
In the last ten years, British troops have resorted to the bayonet to break impasses in combat both in Iraq and Afghanistan. In May, 2004, a detachment from the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders surprised a force of 100 insurgents near Al Amara, Iraq with a bayonet charge. British casualties were light, but nearly 28 guerrillas were killed. And as recently as October of 2011, a British Army lance corporal named Sean Jones led a squad of soldiers from the Prince of Wales Royal Regiment in a bayonet charge against Taliban fighters in Helmand Province, Afghanistan. After being ambushed and pinned down by militants, the 25-year-old ordered his squad to advance into a hail of machine gun fire. “We had to react quickly,” Jones remarked. “I shouted ‘follow me’ and we went for it.” He was awarded the Military Cross for his actions. Even in an age of GPS-guided bombs, unmanned drone and network-centric warfare, 300-year-old technology — like the simple bayonet — can still carry the day.
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You never need one, until you need one REALLY Frickin badly!
 
ever watches ross kemp in afghanistan? there was a scene where they were attaching their bayonets onto their rifles cause the nut jobs were less then 100m away.
 
The polearm is arguably one of the most effective weapons created to date. Instinctive to use even by the untrained, and strikes fear into any man. The bayonet allows a rifle to maintain these advantages. A human can thrust with his arms with more accuracy and greater reaction speed than he can point a rifle and shoot.
 
Maple Leaf Pilgrim said:
Hell, there is record of a Gurkha using the tripod of his L7 to top a few muj as they attempted to overrun his position. Calling CAS on your own grid is bad form...

-S.
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Sorry, that doesn't count - just because it can be done by a Gurkha, doesn't mean it can be done by anyone else. There's actually evidence that 1 Gurkha is worth 30 bad guys - that's not normal.
 
When technology runs out and ammo is short, you got what you got. Stick them as you run by so they don't shot you in the back.
 
Known fact: bayo training boosts morale and aggressiveness.

My wife and dogs can confirm this, 'cuz when I'm bayo training they stay the hell out of the bedroom.
 
barrett50cal said:
Known fact: bayo training boosts morale and aggressiveness.
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Definitely this ^^

The video on the first page seems a little softer then I remember doing it back home. We'd listen to "I was only 19" beforehand and march to the bayonet assault coarse to the cadence of "STAB AND KILL". By the end of the day there would be so much lactic acid in your muscles you couldn't feel a thing and were too exhausted to think straight.
 
Because fear of confused young males who do not want to engage in a combat is best hidden by very obvious threatening theater like a fixing a blade on top of a gun by a command.
 
There has been quite a bit of research on actual killing in combat. An Intimate History of Killing is a book that looks into this in depth and finds that a soldier is much more likely to be willing to use his bayonet then to shoot when engaged. Sounds crazy I know but there are many cases where whole groups of men were killed in combat for lack of shooting back. Squads who just couldn't pull the trigger and died with unfired rifles. Contrary to what many hollywood movies portray, shooting someone in combat is not easy. While we all like to think that we are lean, mean, killing machines. Some of us just are not.
 
'cause "fix bayonets" was often followed by "prepare to receive cavalry". Which is when you want a Martini, not a Mattel...and some practise at square bashing as well. Forget history and you may be forced to repeat it.
 
fortis risk said:
There has been quite a bit of research on actual killing in combat. An Intimate History of Killing is a book that looks into this in depth and finds that a soldier is much more likely to be willing to use his bayonet then to shoot when engaged. Sounds crazy I know but there are many cases where whole groups of men were killed in combat for lack of shooting back. Squads who just couldn't pull the trigger and died with unfired rifles. Contrary to what many hollywood movies portray, shooting someone in combat is not easy. While we all like to think that we are lean, mean, killing machines. Some of us just are not.
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Have a read of "On Combat" and "On Killing" by Lt.Col. Dave Grossman. He discusses in detail what makes people kill and what doesn't. He also goes into detail about what PTSD is, what constitutes PTSD and treatment.

You are correct about the bayo over rifle. His research has found that during the second(WW2) the average engagement rate for both sides combined was less than 10%. That's 1 in 10 soldiers actively engaged the enemy, by Vietnam that rate was up to almost 80%. The use of a bayonet is more readily justified as the threat is very close. The mind can validate the need to kill the other person as a means of self preservation. Engaging someone at distance with a rifle is not viewed as an immediate threat and therefore difficult for the mind to validate.

TDC
 
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