Bob Hagel did a fairly extensive test on the capability of bullets to penetrate brush. He used everything from the 243 up to the 458 Winnie. The final outcome? Nothing will actually go through any amount of brush and be certain to kill something on the other side. Bullets deflect, regardless of diameter, length or speed. I have seen a couple of hope shots through brush tag the animal solidly. More luck than anything else. I have seen far more end up either not hitting the animal at all or producing a wound in an undesirable location, which required a lot of follow up to finalize. I personally had an interesting experience once with a moose and the 308 Norma Mag shooting 220 grain RN's at about 2500 fps. I had a late cow draw, and was hunting in -40ºC weather with about a foot of snow on the ground. I spotted a big, dry cow standing about 125 yards away, browsing on some willows. The line from me to her appeared clear of any brush, so I up and blazed away. She dropped like a stone, and I was congratulating myself on a perfect high lung shot. When I got to her, imagine my surprise to find a gaping wound in her neck, just below her ear. Closer examination showed that the bullet had struck almost sideways, and had penetrated to the neck vertebrae, being stopped there. Wondering why this had happened, I began looking around, and I found it. A ¼" twig about 15 feet in fron of where she stood had been clipped by that long, slow bullet and had set it off course. Had the twig been another 15 feet closer to me, I would have missed that cow entirely. I personally will not even try to shoot through brush unless I can see an actual "hole" through the mess that will allow me to thread that bullet through to a vital spot on the animal. That works! Regards, Eagleye.
BC Mule Deer, which of my rifles.
- Thread starter Calum
- Start date
Tests have shown that the "brush buster" cartridges like flat nose slow big heavy bullet chuckers are not any better, and maybe worse than high velocity bullets...
####, get Doug to lend you a rifle. Once you see what a hunting rifle does for hunting, you may sell all and buy that gun!!
####, get Doug to lend you a rifle. Once you see what a hunting rifle does for hunting, you may sell all and buy that gun!!
Well I'll get my two cents.I've hunted with 6.5x55 on island blacktails and 30-30 .But if you load a 30-30 with a spire point bullet and shoot it out of a bolt action it not bad.But I've hunted also with .270,.280 ,30-06 ,7mm mag and 300 weatherby mag.. This only my experients with mule deer use a 30 cal with a 180 grain bullet. You want the hitting power .6.5x55 is good within 225 yards.But if your hunting at 250 -400 yards I would go with the 303 ,but my fav. is 30-06 with 180 gr. and 7mm mag. 160gr ,175 gr. ,but bash the cals. that 30-30 has been around for years. good luck my gun can pee farther then yours.
BC Bigbore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- BC's Peace Country
I'm kinda biased towards the .303 because my first hunting rifle was a SMLE #4 .303 with a 6x Buffalo scope and I shot my first 2 mule deer with that rifle A .303 'Sussex' topped with a 4x40 WA Scopechief that still lurks in my collection and has accounted for two yearling bull moose, both taken within 150 yards, in my late teens. I have found that factory .303 British 180gr loads are more than enough for moose and work just fine for mule deer within reasonable range. But seriously, a Stevens .270, .30-06 etc, isn't that much moola and with a decent scope, you be styling Bro
A .303 'Sussex' topped with a 4x40 WA Scopechief that still lurks in my collection and has accounted for two yearling bull moose, both taken within 150 yards, in my late teens. I have found that factory .303 British 180gr loads are more than enough for moose and work just fine for mule deer within reasonable range. But seriously, a Stevens .270, .30-06 etc, isn't that much moola and with a decent scope, you be styling Bro 
Wow, the guy asked which rifle and the 'do it my way' demons couldn't help but jump outta the fire. Geeze. Calum, take that 30-30 and a bunch of boxes of ammo to the range. And shoot a crap load out to 150 yds at paper plates 1 gallon milk jugs, and other things 10-12" across from a bunch of different positions. ENJOY using that rifle, make it your best friend and then go hammer a Mulie. I've hunted mulies my whole life, on some of the flattest, barest land you can imagine. Potholes scare us cause they are considered 'deep' where I come from. And I've still managed to shoot all of my mulies except two under 150yds. Consider yourself lucky that you are restricted to a rifle that offers a challenge. When you are kneeling beside those well rubbed, dark, brown antlers, inhaling the mulie musk, you will know that you did it the same way men did it decades ago, with hard work, woodsmanship, and a lot of sweat and patience. I saw your tattoo posting. You need the sweat thing as bad as I do
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I would recommend the swede, but that rifle is probably 2 lbs heavier than the Mod. 94 (and what ever you do if it's untapped, don't tap it), and you should be doing a ton of hiking if you are hunting mulies properly. And that whole needing a .30 cal crap, ya ok, so the one I shot at 411yds with the 107gr .243, the one that took one shot in the lungs and died right there, ya it's not really dead, and I didn't really eat it. 
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Anything from the .260 Rem up is good on mulies out past 400yds. So don't fret.Heck, I'd use a 25-35 WCF to 150yds if I could find one.
.I would recommend the swede, but that rifle is probably 2 lbs heavier than the Mod. 94 (and what ever you do if it's untapped, don't tap it
), and you should be doing a ton of hiking if you are hunting mulies properly. And that whole needing a .30 cal crap, ya ok, so the one I shot at 411yds with the 107gr .243, the one that took one shot in the lungs and died right there, ya it's not really dead, and I didn't really eat it. .Anything from the .260 Rem up is good on mulies out past 400yds. So don't fret.Heck, I'd use a 25-35 WCF to 150yds if I could find one
.So if I get within 150 yards or less...for the 30/30 what grain of bullet for the Mule deer?
For some reason I happen to have lots of 30/30 ammo around, not to mention bullets, brass etc.
150 yards, 30030..don't matter.put it in the right place and your deer will be dead
Here is a good question on a light cal with a light bullet ,shooting a 250 lbs. mule deer in the ribs or lungs.Sure you'll kill'em but how much get away from you.I think a 6.5 x55 is great, but not that great at 350 yards and at a big animal.I have seen mule deer running along the hill sides with there lungs hunging out of them ,with hunters behind them.All cals. are great, but with in there range.
BC Bigbore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- BC's Peace Country
Winchester-Western 170gr Silvertips work well for mule deer and blackbear in the .30-30's I've owned.
BC Bigbore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- BC's Peace Country
Unless you are strictly hunting in the timber where shots won't exceed 75 yards, I say that you'd be better off with a scope sighted .270 bolt rifle or something along those lines. Just my 2 cents.
If the hunters are chasing deer (I can't believe I am sinking low enough to answer this) with their lungs hanging out, the twit behind the rifle shot the deer through the bottom of the diaphragm near the gut sack(ie,low gut or brisket shot) and it has absolutely nothing to do with caliber size, velocity, bullet manufacture,,blah,blah,blah.. end of story. I have seen this happen four times before (and if you say you have more experience with this you might want to question who you are hunting with) and I can tell you which cartridges did this: 30-06, 308 Win, and .270 WCF and 300 WSM. Every time it happened, it was because the person placed the bullet improperly because of one or more of the following: lack of competency, not sighting in their rifle, or shooting at running game at a distance most people shouldn't try at sleeping deer.
For goodness sakes man, if you need an '06 to reliably kill Mule Deer past 250 yards, I am going to start distributing depleted Uranium to the masses for elk, moose and bear 'cause we're gonna need it
And please don't say a person needs the extra power, womp, thump, or whatever for less than perfect shots. Or you can chase the doe I watched shot twice through the last rib with a 300 Win Mag and nosler B-Tips. She went forever, or at least thats what the idiot with the .300 said. I tried to find her for about 3 hours, but hey, he said she couldn't have gone far 'cause he shot her with all that power'. He apparently looked that afternoon and the next morning, but she was gone. All that power. I sure am glad he wasn't my hunting partner.
Bullet placement will help any cartridge over .260 Rem kill a deer out 400 yds. And bad placement will cause any of the above to fail miserably. Head back to the wood shed, son.
For goodness sakes man, if you need an '06 to reliably kill Mule Deer past 250 yards, I am going to start distributing depleted Uranium to the masses for elk, moose and bear 'cause we're gonna need it
And please don't say a person needs the extra power, womp, thump, or whatever for less than perfect shots. Or you can chase the doe I watched shot twice through the last rib with a 300 Win Mag and nosler B-Tips. She went forever, or at least thats what the idiot with the .300 said. I tried to find her for about 3 hours, but hey, he said she couldn't have gone far 'cause he shot her with all that power'. He apparently looked that afternoon and the next morning, but she was gone. All that power. I sure am glad he wasn't my hunting partner.
Bullet placement will help any cartridge over .260 Rem kill a deer out 400 yds. And bad placement will cause any of the above to fail miserably. Head back to the wood shed, son.
No, you should have used a bullet that expanded, and I know for a fact that it didn`t. Because a deer cannot run a mile with no heart (unless the tooth fairy is riding It`s back) as the brain would have shut off way before that, being that the blood needs pressure behind it to make it to the brain, and if the brain isn`t receiving a constant replenishment of oxygen it shuts of in seconds, not minutes, seconds (and if that deer ran the mile in seconds, you weren't on the island, and Bartell is right). That means that deer received oxygen for minutes, hence its heart was still moderately functional. And explain to me how that caliber failed and a .308 cal bullet would have dropped him in his tracks, all things being equal. You think that .024 of an inch seriously made a difference. By the way you found your deer. Or, you made the distance up.
I have never lost a deer to a small caliber rifle. Not one. Nor have I seen one lost due to the fact that it was a small caliber rifle. And I fail to see how your example pertains to Calum using a 6.5x55 past 250 yards effectively on critters that average under 300lbs. He needs a bullet to penetrate 10" and expand enough to significantly destroy enough tissue to cause that animal to expire. I have seen 120gr 6.5mm bullets traveling at 2800fps from the muzzle do that, and with aplomb, as well as 107gr .243. But if you want to use your experience on the micro-deer grown out on the island, and suck up lead like crack heads on a pipe
, be my guest. Just leave the facts on the table and leave beer-induced campfire theorem were it belongs. Behind the bushes with the other s**t.
That was my last response to you, sir, unless something realistic becomes more apparent.
Sorry for taking away from this thread, and I apologize only to Calum for participating in hijacking it.
Or, you made the distance up. I have never lost a deer to a small caliber rifle. Not one. Nor have I seen one lost due to the fact that it was a small caliber rifle. And I fail to see how your example pertains to Calum using a 6.5x55 past 250 yards effectively on critters that average under 300lbs. He needs a bullet to penetrate 10" and expand enough to significantly destroy enough tissue to cause that animal to expire. I have seen 120gr 6.5mm bullets traveling at 2800fps from the muzzle do that, and with aplomb, as well as 107gr .243. But if you want to use your experience on the micro-deer grown out on the island, and suck up lead like crack heads on a pipe
, be my guest. Just leave the facts on the table and leave beer-induced campfire theorem were it belongs. Behind the bushes with the other s**t.That was my last response to you, sir, unless something realistic becomes more apparent.
Sorry for taking away from this thread, and I apologize only to Calum for participating in hijacking it.
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Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
I think they did get a lot tougher, after we went metric.
