BC really tearing up old logging roads

[rajczak_kashka]

In BC many mainline FSR’s would not connect to other Mainlines. Now they are often connected and the branches off these mains and the blocks they harvest are often within sight of blocks and branches from other mains. Combined with the beetle harvest and recent fires and the monoculture of replacement stands and there’s getting to be less and less cover and habitat for game.

There are legitimate direct links between road and traffic density and game numbers and population health.

Everyone is primed and ready to jump on wolves, natives and govt conspiracy theories and NWO agendas but very few are willing to admit or accept that we’ve F’d things pretty hard and there’s an ever increasing demand on resources.

When the BC NDP close provincial parks during the peak summer months to everyone except indigenous, so they can hunt and fish (for ceremonial purposes of course) and give title of private and crown land in secrecy to them without any transparency for the remaining 95% of BC’ers…this not a conspiracy theory ….its a f@cking conspiracy!

 

[rajczak_kashka]

Mosaic Forest Management was formed in 2018 when the operations of two historic coastal British Columbia timber companies—TimberWest and Island Timberlands.

Mosaic is 100% Canadian-owned by major public service pension investment managers, specifically the British Columbia Investment Management Corporation (BCI) and the Alberta Investment Management Corporation (AIMCo). BC owns the majority.

So in effect, it is the Province itself creating these issues.

Wow! Thanks for highlighting this and bringing it to our attention. First I have heard of this ..

 

[Thunderhog]

Conspiracy theories are no longer theories. They usually become fact.

The term conspiracy theory is now called speculative narrative. Calling something a conspiracy theory is self righteous indignation, and dangerous. Or at least this is what the experts are saying........

Speculative narrative or conspiracy theory isn't a conspiracy when 2-3 months later it becomes a reality.....

Conspiracy is a feel good Liberal, Democrat, or NDP term to make corrupt and tyrannical politicians feel better.........

 

[1895GS]

Roads are so yesterday..... Meet the next generation of "quads"!

The shin remover.

 

[remington jim]

In BC many mainline FSR’s would not connect to other Mainlines. Now they are often connected and the branches off these mains and the blocks they harvest are often within sight of blocks and branches from other mains. Combined with the beetle harvest and recent fires and the monoculture of replacement stands and there’s getting to be less and less cover and habitat for game.

There are legitimate direct links between road and traffic density and game numbers and population health.

Everyone is primed and ready to jump on wolves, natives and govt conspiracy theories and NWO agendas but very few are willing to admit or accept that we’ve F’d things pretty hard and there’s an ever increasing demand on resources.

Well YEA with the ever on going POOR mangement practices being over seen by INCOMPETANT BC goverment's its a SH*T show for Sure ! If Goverment Employees and Politicians were made to do there Jobs over the years Things would be a LOT Better out There !

 

[AB3006]

Funny thing is I've seen that first hand. I used to hunt around the Cariboo a lot and watched roads get deactivated one year, then the very next year we were using heavy machinery to push a new road in on top of the deactivated road to fight the fires. Ho much money does that cost? You pay for the machinery to go in an destroy the road then the very next year you pay other machinery to go in and rebuild the same road.

And all the appropriate friends and relations have their snouts in the public trough up to their midriff. That is called "redistribution". The whole BC/FN land debacle is also about this.

 

[CranePete]

I stand to be corrected(please do), but it’s my understanding that BC Timber Sales(Forestry)pays to lay out and establish main haul roads. Licensees lay out and establish the roads into the various blocks. Licensees will be responsible for maintaining their roads while there’s activity. When the blocks have been harvested and remediated, licensees will remove bridges and culverts, and generally make the roads inaccessible and impassable. It’s not done to inconvenience back country users, it’s purely a liability issue. Locally, I’m thinking of the Upper Horsefly and Boulder Creek.

 

[ArmedGinger]

I stand to be corrected(please do), but it’s my understanding that BC Timber Sales(Forestry)pays to lay out and establish main haul roads. Licensees lay out and establish the roads into the various blocks. Licensees will be responsible for maintaining their roads while there’s activity. When the blocks have been harvested and remediated, licensees will remove bridges and culverts, and generally make the roads inaccessible and impassable. It’s not done to inconvenience back country users, it’s purely a liability issue. Locally, I’m thinking of the Upper Horsefly and Boulder Creek.

That is correct. So why is the Government paying a company to go back in and tear up these trails even more a decade later?

 

[bearhunter]

Perhaps to some extent.

I do believe a lot of it is being based on keeping the utter destruction of the back-country by Mosaic et al out of the public view.
I have personally seen grievous deviations from environmental stands (Legislated) FAR too many times to think otherwise.
A fly over of the Island is incredibly disturbing in that regard.
Moonscaped - including vast areas of cutting the entire riparian zone to water's edge (Nahmint Lake is a prime example thereof).
Frigging DISGUSTING!

The entire Okanogan region and many bordering it are in the exact same boat.

It's hard to believe how bad it is until you get into it. In the area between Lumby and Kelowna, I clocked 21 kliks with every Riparian area, seeps, ponds, streams, small lakes, and streams that had lots of water in them previous to the logging, now nothing more than a barren desert. One huge wasteland, sitting dormant for over a decade, at least ten kliks wide. That works out to 200 sq kliks in one huge clearcut. Bone dry, everything dead, other than some grass planted by the Cattleman's Association? This was a thriving ecosystem, and now the creeks, which used to run clear, are stained by tanen and often muddy after even a small rain, because there is nothing left to hold back the rainwater.

It wasn't that long ago, where it took ten men to do what one machine does now.

Where is the real economic benefit to the region or the province, following such an unsustainable harvest?

 

[canadian hunter312]

I’m thinking stuff like this has a lot more to do with decommissioning old logging roads than trying to stop people from hunting and fishing. But, where’s the fun in thinking logically rather than resorting to conspiracies

htt ps://www.biv.com/news/economy-law-politics/bc-judge-rejects-class-action-over-deadly-duffey-lake-landslide-11753763

 

[remington jim]

this whole liabilty thing is PURE BS-HS CRAP ! its should just be made law you cannot sue any one for a F*K u on crown land any where ! People are always looking for a FREE $ even when its there own Doings ! if you go out to play fish hunt etc on crown land look after yourselfs FFS ! SARs not included in this comment i might need them

 

[KodiakHntr]

That is correct. So why is the Government paying a company to go back in and tear up these trails even more a decade later?

I stand to be corrected(please do), but it’s my understanding that BC Timber Sales(Forestry)pays to lay out and establish main haul roads. Licensees lay out and establish the roads into the various blocks. Licensees will be responsible for maintaining their roads while there’s activity. When the blocks have been harvested and remediated, licensees will remove bridges and culverts, and generally make the roads inaccessible and impassable. It’s not done to inconvenience back country users, it’s purely a liability issue. Locally, I’m thinking of the Upper Horsefly and Boulder Creek.

.

BC Timber sales is a separate entity from the Ministry of Forest, Lands, Unicorns, and Fairies or whatever it is they call themselves now. BCTS typically does not lay out a mainline. They will often buy shelf ready packages from licensees, and then put them up for bid. They farm out the layout work to consultants in places and then put that out for bid, and the selling price goes towards determining the bade stumpage in a forest district.

The government isn’t paying anyone to go and tear up roads. That is a cost that licensees are responsible for, and there are a bunch of different reasons for the why of it, but liability is a big one. And not liability in the form of some wingnut drove off the road and hurt themself, but along the lines of a ditch was plugged up and collected some water and a mountain side slid off and blocked a river or wiped out a community.

 

[Max Owner]

I’m thinking stuff like this has a lot more to do with decommissioning old logging roads than trying to stop people from hunting and fishing. But, where’s the fun in thinking logically rather than resorting to conspiracies

htt ps://www.biv.com/news/economy-law-politics/bc-judge-rejects-class-action-over-deadly-duffey-lake-landslide-11753763

Prove me wrong.

The “conspiracy theories” say the government wants to move everyone into the cities. The federal government wants to save 30% of Canada’s land for preservation. This is now policy care of the Liberals.

 

[leveractionjunkie]

Well YEA with the ever on going POOR mangement practices being over seen by INCOMPETANT BC goverment's its a SH*T show for Sure ! If Goverment Employees and Politicians were made to do there Jobs over the years Things would be a LOT Better out There !

What you are referring to as POOR management practices, has been going on longer than Ive been alive and it will likely go on until there is nothing left.

The "Timber Companies" own the govt agencies in that they routinely and continually threaten to close mills, move mills and generally give up on the province in order to pressure politicians and ministers into conceding on stumpage rates and reclamation/planting requirements. The companies have been so effective in this game that the Forest Industry of BC is barely a net contributor to the province in comparison to its former self.

These companies have taken and taken for decades while continually tightening their expenditures and paying ever less back to the resource owners of BC (Us-the citizens). Now as they've scalped the plateaus and easy timber lots to the point that there's hardly any viable blocks left to cut they will use Trumps tariffs as excuse to move corporate offices and operations to the US and we will be left holding the bag.

Thankfully they've convinced everyone it's the current govt of the days fault. It is by the way, every govt of every political bent, over the last 60-70 years that has aided in the corporate fleecing of OUR resources.

The land claim and stewardship issues are separate but intertwined and they are not conspiracy, they are open govt policy in step with legal challenges and case settlements.

 

[rajczak_kashka]

Conspiracy theories are no longer theories. They usually become fact.

The term conspiracy theory is now called speculative narrative. Calling something a conspiracy theory is self righteous indignation, and dangerous. Or at least this is what the experts are saying........

Speculative narrative or conspiracy theory isn't a conspiracy when 2-3 months later it becomes a reality.....

Conspiracy is a feel good Liberal, Democrat, or NDP term to make corrupt and tyrannical politicians feel better.........

Strongly agree.

 

[KodiakHntr]

The "Timber Companies" own the govt agencies in that they routinely and continually threaten to close mills, move mills and generally give up on the province in order to pressure politicians and ministers into conceding on stumpage rates and reclamation/planting requirements. The companies have been so effective in this game that the Forest Industry of BC is barely a net contributor to the province in comparison to its former self.

Having been in the industry for better than 30 years now, I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt after working for and with the largest forest companies in the province, that this simply doesn’t happen. The big licensees have been more interested in having rock solid defendability on stumpage pricing due to the ongoing softwood lumber dispute and tariffs so that it doesn’t slow down the sale of lumber to the US.

Silviculture is simply a cost of doing business and getting old blocks off the books as soon as possible is always a goal.
Stumpage isn’t “set” by anyone in government, it’s a HIGHLY audited process by foreign governments constantly in an effort to deny Canadian lumber exports. If there was anything there to be found, forensic auditors from the USA would have found it and paraded it around on the media over the last few decades.

However, licensees DO point out to government that not having reliable, consistent access to fiber WILL result in mill closures. Government red tape and government union employees are absolutely a significant barrier to keeping loggers working at a steady pace.

 

[leveractionjunkie]

I will yield to your experience Kodiak. Although I believe that your last point combined with dwindling easy fiber the results will be the same. At least in the S interior here where most sawmills have closed already and the remaining pulp mills are chipping and grinding to stay alive.

 

[ISaidShotgun!]

I have been having this same conversation about road deactivation or decompaction (if you're from Alberta) for 30 years.

These roads are bought and paid for by the licensee or quota holder and are temporary. Once they are no longer required by the harvest or silviculture plan they need to be put back into the productive forest and planted. So, they are dug up. If the roads are needed in the future they'll remove any water crossings, put waterbars in and try and maintain the road surface as best they can.

Access control is part of any deactivation plan but there is no gov't conspiracy. It's all all about getting the roads back into production and off the company books. Maintaining these roads is expensive and the liability costs are also expensive.

Most licensees in BC will have public consultations detailing their road use plans and deactivation plans. They are advertised locally. Go to them and raise your concerns with the owners of the road. But I guarantee you that no licensee will want to keep a road open and pay for maintenance because it leads to someone's favourite hunting spot. At best they will hand you the paperwork to assume the road use permit and all the obligations that come with it.

 

[treblek]

Unfortunately, leaving roads in a passable condition means someone is responsible if any environmental issues crop up and someone needs to be spending the cash to inspect and keep the road in good condition.

The ministry had some less than stellar bridge audits in the past few years that set off a lot of the FSR deactivations and bridge removals. No bridge = no liability = no issue. Ministry cash is tight with not much appetite to maintain long stretches of roads or fix bridges that don’t access communities so deactivation is the logical step.

A lot of this maintenance and repairs was performed by mills using the FSRs in the past but with mills closing and reduced logging there is no longer any industrial use to keep the mainlines maintained.

BC Professional regulating bodies have also made changes in the last couple years that increase personal risk and liability for professionals dealing with roads and bridges. That’s resulted in licensees trying to deactivate and retire any unused roads to reduce their risk.

So not really a conspiracy, just a “perfect storm” of multiple issues that are making deactivation of roads a priority across the province.

 

[geologist]

I thought part of the crimp on fiber supply was the 1,048 parks totaling 3.144M ha of the 94M ha area of BC?