Beam powder scales vs cheap digital scales vs powder scoop

iron cat said:
With all this talk about inaccuracy of scales ( both beam and electronic)
It's amazing how us competitors that weigh charges for long range BR, fullbore, Fclass , and ELR can hit anything !😒
Cat
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It isn't at all though, because you have consistent and repeatable scales.
Again, it really doesn't have much to do with accuracy.
Do you think your POI or SD's would change with 1/2 a grain of charge difference? 3/4? A full grain?
R.
 
Rman said:
It isn't at all though, because you have consistent and repeatable scales.
Again, it really doesn't have much to do with accuracy.
Do you think your POI or SD's would change with 1/2 a grain of charge difference? 3/4? A full grain?
R.
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1/2 grain at 1,000 meters makes a big difference in match ammo as well as 300 meters and can make the difference in a less or a win.
Cat
 
iron cat said:
1/2 grain at 1,000 meters makes a big difference in match ammo as well as 300 meters and can make the difference in a less or a win.
Cat
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When speaking in terms of claimed scale accuracy, down to 1/10 of a grain depending on the scale, how small of an increment truly affects the POI?
And yes... a half grain may have been a bit of a jump... Especially on a smaller case.

R.
 
Rman said:
When speaking in terms of claimed scale accuracy, down to 1/10 of a grain depending on the scale, how small of an increment truly affects the POI?
And yes... a half grain may have been a bit of a jump... Especially on a smaller case.

R.
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You mentioned 1/2 a grain not 1/10.
On any given day 1/10 might make a difference, on another day it won't.
I just try to make my loads as consistent as possible and leave the accuracy parameters to my wind calls.
Cat
 
Rman said:
When speaking in terms of claimed scale accuracy, down to 1/10 of a grain depending on the scale, how small of an increment truly affects the POI?
And yes... a half grain may have been a bit of a jump... Especially on a smaller case.

R.
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I handload for hunting purposes, not long range shooting. However, when I measure my gunpowder, (with a watchfull eye on the digital scale) I'll trickle to the last kernal, for the exact weight. Consistency is key for accuracy and velocity.
 
Rman said:
Even a "check weight" from Amazon won't tell you if the scale is accurate, or not. It will tell you the same thing as the washer.

There isn't one accurate scale on this entire thread.
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A check weights certainly does prove your scale is accurate within the limitations of the scale and weight. Whether or not that specific accuracy is suitable depends on your purpose.

You said none of these scales was accurate but "accurate" is a relative term.

Rman said:
Unlike yourself, the need to impress anyone doesn't exist. Especially on an internet forum. Long range shooting was not mentioned once.

Accuracy is never demanded. You should probably look up the definition. Consistency and repeatability are far more important.
None of these scales are accurate, because none of them are. It's a fact. That's all. The best part is, they don't have to be.

Only trying to show that most anyone doesn't need to blow their brains out trying to get an "accurate" scale, where it simply can't exist.
Also trying to show that it certainly isn't required. Maybe if you read and paid attention you would see that, instead of ranting.
If folks want to try and get an accurate scale, that's up to them. Maybe someone can use this info, maybe not.
Having an expectation of anything is a fool's game. You play it well.
Seriously? Again, it's an internet forum. You probably need to get out more.
Not sure what you think has been done to you... but whatever you think it is, it probably hasn't.
If one doesn't understand something, it's better to ask a question than to make a statement.
Now contribute, intelligently, or piss off.

R.
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Can you expand on your statement that none of the scales spoken of in this thread are accurate enough for OP's purpose? What scale do you think he should use?

A washer will prove repeatability but not accuracy. A check weight is exactly what a precision lab would use to confirm accuracy on a scale.
 
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iron cat said:
It's not for some, for others ,they don't seem to be happy unless they are fussing over minutiae!
Cat
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Better yet making a life out of picking fly poop out of pepper…….

Thinking about this further, how did your thrown charge experiment go when shooting out to 500?
 
jethunter said:
Can you expand on your statement that none of the scales spoken of in this thread are accurate enough for OP's purpose? What scale do you think he should use?
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That can't be done as that statement was never made. Nor was it said that the Garmin chronograph wasn't good enough.
So stop spewing lies and incorrect info to try and do whatever it is you're doing? You're failing misarably.
You need to work on the reading skills fella.
The OP can use whatever scale he likes. So can you, and so can anyone else.

R.
 
Can someone with a high end scale weight some H4350 for me? I wonder what the short, average, and large individual kernels weigh.
When I trickle down to one kernel I find using different sized kernels gets me where I need to be. ( could be scale limits, could be actual kernel weight. )
 
Rman said:
That can't be done as that statement was never made. Nor was it said that the Garmin chronograph wasn't good enough.
So stop spewing lies and incorrect info to try and do whatever it is you're doing? You're failing misarably.
You need to work on the reading skills fella.
The OP can use whatever scale he likes. So can you, and so can anyone else.

R.
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Both a bathroom scale and a precision lab electronic scale can be legally certified as "accurate". When you said none of the scales were accurate, what did you mean?
 
I dont know much about long range but it only makes sense that every little variable increases the further the bullet has to travel. 1/2” off @ 100 yards means little to a hunter but increase the distance and the 1/2” becomes a inches then feet. Hunting loads can be loaded with a dropper, scoop or scale and as long as you are careful, mindful and are not useing a load approaching max psi, you’ll do just fine IMO. Practice shooting (off hand) will produce better results thsn messing with trying yo reduce your group size by 1/2” through loading.
 
jethunter said:
Both a bathroom scale and a precision lab electronic scale can be legally certified as "accurate". When you said none of the scales were accurate, what did you mean?
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Dude... please.
What are you trying to accomplish?

It is unlikely a bathroom scale could be legally certified as accurate. A precision lab scale would have to be, especially when used in a lab. if that scale leaves the lab, or the parameters under which it was certified change, then it is no longer certified.
You should probably run your googler and read what it takes to legally certify a scale.

It wasn't said that none of the scales were accurate. It was said that none of the scales on this thread are accurate. Big difference. It was meant as just that. They aren't. It was also explained that they don't need to be, because they don't. You can run your googler to find out why not as well, because it isn't going to matter what is typed here, you're just going to go on and on about it.
You already have plenty of info. So sort it out?

R.
 
Lefty #### said:
Better yet making a life out of picking fly poop out of pepper…….

Thinking about this further, how did your thrown charge experiment go when shooting out to 500?
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That test however was done shooting prone using a sling'n'irons rifle , not a bench rested , scoped rifle .
It was actually my 500 meter scores and groups that lead me to thd test , but that was done at 800 not 500!
At 500 meters only 7 rounds in 95 were outside of 2MOA vertical ( the bull on a TR target is 2 MO, the V Bull is one MOA)
With thrown charges .
The test at 800 was done with thrown charges from a Harrel measure and weight charges from a V4 trickler and lab scale - the same rig used by the best high master Fclass shooters in the World.
The rounds were handed to me at random so I was not aware of which one I was shooting , and the results recorded.
The results basically told me that I would not shoot any better using the weighed charges as opposed to the thrown charges on the Harrel's measure .
HOWEVER, this was a real World test, with swirling and following winds using an irons rifle .
Others will undoubtedly be able to get better results with a good scoped rifle and an F/O style front rest and rear bag.
Attached is a 900 meter ten shot group from that test day that was shot afterwards
NOTE: The test was for group NOT score
The result of this and all my other testing was that the nut behind the bolt is the biggest variable .
Cat
 

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Lead hammer said:
Can someone with a high end scale weight some H4350 for me? I wonder what the short, average, and large individual kernels weigh.
When I trickle down to one kernel I find using different sized kernels gets me where I need to be. ( could be scale limits, could be actual kernel weight. )
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You might be better off sorting a little pile of powder and weighing 20 of each, then dividing the total weight by 20. This will be your lot of powder with your moisture content.
 
jimbo14 said:
You might be better off sorting a little pile of powder and weighing 20 of each, then dividing the total weight by 20. This will be your lot of powder with your moisture content.
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Speedy Gonzales explained the differences while back in an interview with Erik Cortina why SBR shooters throw their charges instead of weighing them and it had to do with moisture content of the day.
Cat
 
iron cat said:
Speedy Gonzales explained the differences while back in an interview with Erik Cortina why SBR shooters throw their charges instead of weighing them and it had to do with moisture content of the day.
Cat
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I’ve seen crazy differences in lots/moisture content of Titegroup.

Speedy seems like a real cool guy. I haven’t seen that interview, but I do remember when Erik had him over to clean barrels.
 
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