Beam powder scales vs cheap digital scales vs powder scoop

It always makes me chuckle when some guys talk about a few 10th of a grain would make such a huge difference in accuracy or that their scales can reliably measure that. Could be possible under clean room, fully climate/pressure controlled labratory conditions.

1/10th of a grain is 0.0064 grams, that's equivalent to the weight of a "no see um" or two ...
 
Most of the long range target shooters that I know use scales that will weigh within .02 grains. This means that as little as 2 kernals of Varget will change the reading on the scale. The load that I use with 155 gr bullets out of a .308 is 46.0 gr of Varget or VV N140. With 46.0 being the target load 46.02 gr is also acceptable for me to load. Down range SD at 1000 yards is less than 10 fps measured by a Shotmarker e-target over a 10 or 15 shot match.

If your demands for your reloads are minute of pie plate, or minute of moose at 100 yards thrown charges or scoops will work just fine.
 
maynard said:
Most of the long range target shooters that I know use scales that will weigh within .02 grains. This means that as little as 2 kernals of Varget will change the reading on the scale. The load that I use with 155 gr bullets out of a .308 is 46.0 gr of Varget or VV N140. With 46.0 being the target load 46.02 gr is also acceptable for me to load. Down range SD at 1000 yards is less than 10 fps measured by a Shotmarker
maynard said:
Most of the long range target shooters that I know use scales that will weigh within .02 grains. This means that as little as 2 kernals of Varget will change the reading on the scale. The load that I use with 155 gr bullets out of a .308 is 46.0 gr of Varget or VV N140. With 46.0 being the target load 46.02 gr is also acceptable for me to load. Down range SD at 1000 yards is less than 10 fps measured by a Shotmarker e-target over a 10 or 15 shot match.

If your demands for your reloads are minute of pie plate, or minute of moose at 100 yards thrown charges or scoops will work just fine.
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Well what ghillbert achieved with his scooped loads are way better than minute of moose!!!
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Iloverevolvers said:
DGY: Well what ghillbert achieved with his scooped loads are way better than minute of moose!!!

I agree. Ghillbert's 10-shot "scoop group" at 200 yards was by my eyes probably 2", so I'd describe that as a minute-of-small-tea-cup-saucer. ;)
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Well, Maynard, Lets see your groups created with a .02 grains powder scale.

I'm taking out my Kale chips and a strong beer to cope with it... (y)
 
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Well I have been shooting target rifle with iron sights without a rest using a shooting jacket and sling as the only support for the rifle for 30+ years. I won't lie to you, may scores have gone down and I struggle holding the rifle up after breaking my left shoulder into 4 pieces and 2 surgeries, but once in a while I can still put in a good score.
The only time I shoot groups is when testing a load and rough zeroing a rifle with irons at 100 yards to make sure I am on paper at 300 yards (the closest we get to the target) A 1" group at 100 yards isn't a bad group shooting off your elbows with iron sights without a rest.
 
stubblejumper said:
The LEE scale is probably the most frustrating tooling ever invented for reloading. It is not magnetic dampened, is extremely slow, and frustrates many people. I have seen one shot, and one smashed with a hammer, and both people felt relieved afterwards. A cheaper Ohaus scale will be a far superior tool, for a reasonable price.
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Lots to read in this thread.
A bit of horn locking.
Interesting scale vs scoop challenge.
Thanks for that.
I’ve always wondered how the Lee skewp de do plays out.

I somehow ended up with a Lee Safety Scale.
Not sure where the safety aspect comes from butt ollie molie,
what a pile oh chit.

I’m confident with my old Ohaus 5-0-5 scale.
I’ve been hipnotized by that needle moving up and down and can honestly claim I know when it’s being obtuse.
My digital scale I’m slowly gaining confidence on.
I do check every so often with the Ohaus.

Have fun folks.
Winter izz ahh brak’in.
 
Digital scale drift.... Where's your cell phone sitting???

Just thought I might let people know about a little quirk I came across with my digital scale. A couple years ago I bought a digital lab-grade scale which will measure to 0.01 grains. It's a Bonvoisin brand (Chinese, I assume) and not overly expensive. The scale is actually pretty good, but sometimes it would randomly creep on me and it got very frustrating. I began limiting the factors that might cause the drift, such as levelling, repeated calibration, restrict air flow, vibrations, etc. but it still would occasionally drift badly.
I eventually discovered two things: 1) let the scale warm up for about an hour before using it. 2) keep my cell phone at least 6 feet away from the scale. In the end, a cold scale and/or my cell phone too close would totally mess up my readings.
Just my 2 cents....
 
bearhunter said:
You can easily make a custom scoop by cutting down a cartridge case to hold the right amount of powder. Handles can be attached two part epoxy from the Dollar Store.

When you practice a bit, it's very possible to throw powder charges consistently plus/minus 1/10 grain.

Same goes for scoops, once you have one trimmed to hold the charge you want.
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When it comes to the CGN web site, I'm a great advice-follower and so, apparently, are others (like Lucky D..k).

Here are a few photos of a scoop I fabricated using an Aguila Colibri LR case, a short legth of 1/4" copper tubing and some solder.
LR case scoop 1.jpg

LR case scoop 2.jpgLR case scoop 3.jpg

I weighed on my RCBS 5-0-2 probably 25 scoops (each scoop, not ever having more than one scoop in the pan) of Titegroup and determined that this DIY scoop delivers 3.5 grains plus or minus 0.15 grains (calculated standard deviation; my scale has a 0.1 grain resolution) after leveling the powder in the case (which can be done in 1 or 2 seconds). I was shooting for 3.1 or 3.2 (pun definitely intended), but I believe that I'm going to be very satisfied with very close to 3.5 grains.

So those of you 223 re-loaders who want to try something a bit different for a change, give this a shot (another pun definitely intended).

Thanks for the sage advice, Bearhunter.(y)

BTW, I also found out that I can use the 1.6cc scoop in my Lee kit to produce high-power rounds using Titegroup. Firing these will be very interesting.
 
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Well…Ive been reading these posts with interest for a while so I’ll chirp in. I acquired 3 cheap digital scales over the years and they all share something in common, they are all in the garbage. The Lyman Ohaus and the RCBS scales test each other and the outputs of various powder throwers that I own. I initially had reservations about the ‘crude’ powder measuring and dispensing on my 2 Dillon 550 progressive reloaders but much to my surprise accuracy as verified at my personal range at 550 yards is stellar, less than 1moa. Ammo loaded with Neil Jones benchrest dies and hand weighed powders isn’t doing much better than the ‘bulk’ loaded stuff. Its a matter of picking the right components, proper die setup, a solid mounting of the press and consistent manipulation of your machine. I stopped cutting my IMR4350 kernals in half decades ago. Been loading over 60 years…and still experimenting. lol
 
Ha... I have a digital scale somewhere. I don't use it either. I have an old Hornady branded beam scale, (Pacific) no plastic parts.

I have 2 different powder throws, Redding and Hornady that I use. my procedure it throw the load then put it on the scale, if I need a little more powder I have a trickler that I can add a little powder to get the scale to zero.

plus minus tenths of grains is good enough.
 
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Iloverevolvers said:
When it comes to the CGN web site, I'm a great advice-follower and so, apparently, are others (like Lucky D..k).

Here are a few photos of a scoop I fabricated using an Aguila Colibri LR case, a short legth of 1/4" copper tubing and some solder.
View attachment 1120985

View attachment 1120986View attachment 1120987

I weighed on my RCBS 5-0-2 probably 25 scoops (each scoop, not ever having more than one scoop in the pan) of Titegroup and determined that this DIY scoop delivers 3.5 grains plus or minus 0.15 grains (calculated standard deviation; my scale has a 0.1 grain resolution) after leveling the powder in the case (which can be done in 1 or 2 seconds). I was shooting for 3.1 or 3.2 (pun definitely intended), but I believe that I'm going to be very satisfied with very close to 3.5 grains.

So those of you 223 re-loaders who want to try something a bit different for a change, give this a shot (another pun definitely intended).

Thanks for the sage advice, Bearhunter.(y)

BTW, I also found out that I can use the 1.6cc scoop in my Lee kit to produce high-power rounds using Titegroup. Firing these will be very interesting.
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It was great emailing with you, and helping you through this……

Most excellent, please post some range reports.
 
I bought one of those Lyman all American 8 reloading kits that supposedly comes with just about everything you need.

The kit included the Lyman Gen6 digital powder dispenser and I've quickly come to like it. So far I've probably loaded around 1000 rounds of ammo using it. .38spl, .44 Rem Mag, .308 and 45-70 govt.

Seems plenty accurate enough for me. And is super easy to use. Depending on the powder shape it usually throws a charge to + or - one tenth of a grain. An overwhelming amount of the time its .1 grain  over what you type in. I suspect this is simply because of the "avalanche" effect happening in the trickler tube. Sometimes the same degree of rotation will kick out 5 kernals instead of 2 and thats how it happens. So when I want a 31.5gr charge of IMR 4198, I'll type in 31.4 ...... 60% of the time it'll spit out 31.4, and I'll tap the tube with my finger to get 31.5 ... 30% of the time I'll get 31.5, and 10% will be 31.3.

Occasionally, like after 25 rounds I'll pop a 50.00 gram weight into the powder dish to make sure it hasn't wandered... its always read good since the initial calibration. I once however noticed that after an hour of leaving the same charge in the dish it'll creep up a couple tenths. I poured it out and put the 50.00 gram weight back on.... measures 50.00 grams. All good I guess.

I've noticed its super sensitive to air drafts. Waving ur hand over it, or having the furnace run totally makes it dance a few tenths.

It's hard to imagine outside of extreme precision situations where + or - a tenth makes much difference. For some powders thats literally a couple kernels. But because its so easy to do on the Lyman Gen 6 I do hold all my loads to within one tenth. It's certainly able to dish out sub moa loads. I loaded up around 500 rounds of .38spl with cheap plated 158gr bullets and 4.0grs of Titegroup. Those loads seem to shoot very well accuracy wise (3moa) even out of a .357 chamber.

Really my only 2 gripes with the Lyman Gen 6 digital dispenser have so far been: 1) It beeps rather loudly every time it finishes a charge. 2) Powders like Titegroup will etch and cling to the polymer hopper after 5 plus hours of exposure. 3) Clearing it free of powder i suspect is a much bigger chore then powder throwers, scoops, etc.
 
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riversrest said:
It always makes me chuckle when some guys talk about a few 10th of a grain would make such a huge difference in accuracy or that their scales can reliably measure that. Could be possible under clean room, fully climate/pressure controlled labratory conditions.

1/10th of a grain is 0.0064 grams, that's equivalent to the weight of a "no see um" or two ...
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Consistency=accuracy. I'm sure you heard that term. The journey is the fun part, results are rewarding, especially when a big buck hits the dirt. I measure my powder to the last kernal.
 
track said:
Consistency=accuracy. I'm sure you heard that term. The journey is the fun part, results are rewarding, especially when a big buck hits the dirt. I measure my powder to the last kernal.
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"Consistency=accuracy", I disagree on this one. If one is doing something consistenly wrong he may not be very accurate in terms of hitting targets/game !

Just a quick word about consistency while reloading :)

Make sure you don't have any powder weight loss while sliding powder into the case. This is your measured powder charge.

Check for powder residue in the scale pan and funnel, gather residue and weigh to determine friction weight loss due to powder granulates sticking to the surface, e.g. due to rough surfaces or static electricity. Could be both.

Do not breathe towards the powder charge, it could pick-up moisture, changing charge weight and combustion properties.

Yada, yada, yada,...

These measuring scoops work just great (in combination with a simple reference scale) for a majority of reloaders. Comes with a slide chart for different powders.

0005626_powder-measure-kit_550.jpeg
 
maynard said:
Well I have been shooting target rifle with iron sights without a rest using a shooting jacket and sling as the only support for the rifle for 30+ years. I won't lie to you, may scores have gone down and I struggle holding the rifle up after breaking my left shoulder into 4 pieces and 2 surgeries, but once in a while I can still put in a good score.
The only time I shoot groups is when testing a load and rough zeroing a rifle with irons at 100 yards to make sure I am on paper at 300 yards (the closest we get to the target) A 1" group at 100 yards isn't a bad group shooting off your elbows with iron sights without a
riversrest said:
"Consistency=accuracy", I disagree on this one. If one is doing something consistenly wrong he may not be very accurate in terms of hitting targets/game !

Just a quick word about consistency while reloading :)

Make sure you don't have any powder weight loss while sliding powder into the case. This is your measured powder charge.

Check for powder residue in the scale pan and funnel, gather residue and weigh to determine friction weight loss due to powder granulates sticking to the surface, e.g. due to rough surfaces or static electricity. Could be both.

Do not breathe towards the powder charge, it could pick-up moisture, changing charge weight and combustion properties.

Yada, yada, yada,...

These measuring scoops work just great (in combination with a simple reference scale) for a majority of reloaders. Comes with a slide chart for different powders.

0005626_powder-measure-kit_550.jpeg
Click to expand...
I think we assume here that when you find your load consistency equal accuracy… that said if you don’t care well you will get the results that are attached to that!
Click to expand...
 
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