Bear defence.... no, I'm serious.

What should I carry in the wilds of BC for Bear protection, and hunting?

  • marlin Guide gun in 45-70

    Votes: 106 37.5%
  • BLR in 300 Win Mag

    Votes: 11 3.9%
  • Old BPR in 300 Win Mag

    Votes: 3 1.1%
  • Good Pump 12ga

    Votes: 132 46.6%
  • Other... (gun only options)

    Votes: 31 11.0%

  • Total voters
    283
  • Poll closed .
My buddy was mauled last year by a grizzly and prior to that I had packed just in case. Now if I go out with my wife she pretty much insists. I purchased a Maverick 88, put a top folding stock on it and it fits perfectly on the side of my pack. If I was really concerned that I would be encountering an aggressive bear (which is highly unlikely) my preference would be to be packing a 45-70 guide gun. Here is the link to the grizzly story

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=40606
 
The question calls for not only a bear defense gun but for a bear gun that doubles as a hunting gun. As most by now should realize, the hunting gun and the defense gun fill separate if related roles. The 12 ga shotgun loaded with slugs is suitable only for close range applications, although I am told that specialty shotguns can stretch their reach to medium range, but looses versatility for acquiring small game for camp food. Thus the smoothbore shotgun should be considered a less than ideal contender if big game hunting is conducted in places where longish shots are the rule. If you want to put game birds in the pot and have a bear defense gun, it remains a good choice.

Many bears have been killed with rifles from the .270 Winchester on up. But if you are thinking in terms of a protection specific rifle that you can also hunt with, I believe you need more. The versatility demanded by a bear defense/hunting rifle typifies a medium bore rifle with moderate to high velocity, heavy for caliber bullets from a light rifle with a relatively short barrel. Thus any big game animal can be taken out to 300 yards or more, yet the power is there to enthusiastically solve an emergency that occurs just a few feet distant. Contenders begin with the various .338s, .375s and .416s.

Large bore rifles in the .45/70 to .458 Winchester are superb up close problem solvers, but leave a bit to be desired if the anticipated range exceeds 200 yards, in that the shooter's range estimation becomes more critical than with flatter shooting cartridges. The .460 Weatherby loaded to it's potential is probably too much of a good thing for most, although it produces a flat trajectory when loaded with pointy bullets. A .458 Ultra wildcat would combine a trajectory suitable for shots out to 300 yards with less recoil than the Weatherby in a rifle of similar weight, particularly if 450 gr TSXs were chosen over 500s.

As to the likelihood of encountering a dangerous bear, or a bear that under certain circumstances becomes dangerous, that depends on the amount of exposure you have to bears in their environment. Thus my likelihood of having a run in with a dangerous bear exceeds the chances of someone who lives in an urban area or for that matter most rural areas. If your work involves bear control or research, your chances are again greater. If you travel through bear country on foot your chances of having a problem with a bear are greater than a person who spends an equal amount of time in the same area but travels by helicopter, in a vehicle, or on a quad. Consider though that I have lived in polar bear habitat for the last 20 some years. I have spent endless hours watching and walking around these guys on land and out on the sea ice. I've seen them on carcasses and I've seen them eat their young, but I have never seen a bear pull a seal up on an ice flow, kill it and eat it. Last spring a group of kids were up here for a 2 day visit and part of their visit involved going out in a Zodiac around the ice flows. Damned if they didn't see a bear pull a seal up on the ice and begin feeding! You just never know.

Bear defense is often dismissed as fantasy, but for the people who deal with bears regularly it is a serious issue. For the infrequent visitor to bear country, your chances of having a problem with a bear are low. What were the chances of those kids seeing a bear kill a seal? The chances were pretty low, but obviously not zero. Similarly your chances of having a dangerous bear encounter within the short time you are in bear country are low, but again not zero.
 
A few problems there SC, one its a 30-06, secondly a 220gr :eek: Thats crazy talk, why not just jump up a little to the 300WM if you're gonna go that nutz. Its funny no one seems to like the BLR option, inspite of some good chamberings and a takedown version of them.

I gotta agree with Supercub, a 220 gr 30-06 (ie. heavy for calibre) is my choice for big bears. I hunt deer with 180's.

However 220 gr factory ammo has become rare or non-existent. Anything heavier than 180gr in 30-06 is definitely a find these days.

Imperial used to make heavy 211gr (I might be wrong on the exact weight) .303 Brit SPs that many prospectors and geos would use as camp gun ammo, often in a LE No5. I wish I could find a couple of boxes of it.
 
My buddy was mauled last year by a grizzly and prior to that I had packed just in case. Now if I go out with my wife she pretty much insists. I purchased a Maverick 88, put a top folding stock on it and it fits perfectly on the side of my pack. If I was really concerned that I would be encountering an aggressive bear (which is highly unlikely) my preference would be to be packing a 45-70 guide gun. Here is the link to the grizzly story

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=40606

Glad you guys got off without serious injuries. This is why the best tent gun in remote bear habitat is a revolver with a lanyard cord. Safe and ready to go. Make sure you have an ATC. Having a knife and flashlight closeby is good too as the knife allows you to exit your tent at your discretion, especially a heavy canvas tent.

If you can't legally have a revolver in your tent then a big bore lever action carbine with one in the chamber and the hammer on the half-#### is safe and secure.

If you have one of thse Dominion Arms 12", 12ga double barrel Outlaws that you have thoroughly tested for reliablity, it would do the job too. External hammers, very short barrels, safe to keep loaded with the hammers down and the safety off.
 
Well it seems most bear threads get started in Toronto so I'm starting to assume they must be overrun with large angry grizzly bears. That's where I would guess.

I have a lot of friends in Northern and the "near north" of Ontario. Who would like to load all the Bears up and send them to Toronto and let them deal with them. After all it's Toronto that doesn't think there is a Bear problem in Ontario... BRING BACK THE SPRING BEAR HUNT.
 
I once heard a "gun counter commando" explaining how he was going to use a 17 Remington for bears. It was easy according to him; "just slip it between the ribs and blow up the lungs".:rolleyes: There was a fellow on these forums not too long ago who was going to use his pet .223 Tavor to "stop them with a wall of something or another".;) It reminds me of Norm, on "Cheers", saying; "it's a dog's life and I'm wearing Milk-Bone underwear". Except, in their case the "dog" would be real big and highly PO'd.:eek:
 
The question calls for not only a bear defense gun but for a bear gun that doubles as a hunting gun. As most by now should realize, the hunting gun and the defense gun fill separate if related roles.

I agree, in an ideal situation you are correct, but. I do not want to go the route of more and more guns in truth. One that will do both with assured reliability is what I would ideally like. I was thinking one of the Marlins, but hear stories of failures, and I have past experience with BLRs (though not liking them), and know I can make them run.
I hadnt really thought much of the stuff bigger than the old 338s, but its an option.





If you have one of thse Dominion Arms 12", 12ga double barrel Outlaws that you have thoroughly tested for reliablity, it would do the job too. External hammers, very short barrels, safe to keep loaded with the hammers down and the safety off.

A hammer SXS would be the cats-ass, but the Outlaw isnt the one.
 
A hammer SXS would be the cats-ass, but the Outlaw isnt the one.

As long as your testing proves that it is reliable, the Outlaw will work just fine at contact ranges and their very short barrels in the confines of a dark tent would be a great advantage. If your testing proves that they are not reliable then I agree they are not suitable but that caveat applies to any defense firearm. Test it thoroughly before trusting your life to it. My 1895GS works flawlessly but I know that only because I have thoroughly tested it. The same applies to my HP9-1, Mossberg 500, BRNO 602, LE No.5 and Ruger Super Redhawk. For example, my Mossberg 500A has extraction issues and I do not trust it for use as a defense gun. I'm not saying that all 500's are unreliable but my testing with slugs proves that mine is not reliable.

I've tested my Outlaw, it is reliable and suitable for use as a tent gun but with an ATC prefer to go with the Super Redhawk in .454 Casull. YMMV.
 
A hammer SXS would be the cats-ass, but the Outlaw isnt the one.

It's funny you would say that. I remember when the outlaw first came out you were one of the biggest advocats of it. And calling everyone that had anything negative to say about it a "Fudd". What happened were the "Fudds" right?? Here's a nice pic of you shooting your beloved outlaw. :)

http://
 
It's funny you would say that. I remember when the outlaw first came out you were one of the biggest advocats of it. And calling everyone that had anything negative to say about it a "Fudd". What happened were the "Fudds" right?? Here's a nice pic of you shooting your beloved outlaw. :)

http://

At least the photo caught my "good" side :D

IIRC I don't recall calling anyone a "Fudd" but I don't feel like reading all the way through that acrimonious thread ;).

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317084

I do recall that my position in that thread was that people should test a firearm themselves and THEN form an opinion so I feel that I am being consistent in saying test it first to determine if it is reliable for you YMMV.

Do I think that my Outlaw is the be all and end all of SxS's? Certainly not. It's crude and rude.

Following the results of my testing, do I think that MY Outlaw is reliable for keeping safely loaded and shooting slugs in the confined space of tent at a bear where a 24-30" barrel might be a disadvantage? Hel* yeah.
 
At least the photo caught my "good" side :D

IIRC I don't recall calling anyone a "Fudd" but I don't feel like reading all the way through that acrimonious thread ;).

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317084

I do recall that my position in that thread was that people should test a firearm themselves and THEN form an opinion so I feel that I am being consistent in saying test it first to determine if it is reliable for you YMMV.

Do I think that my Outlaw is the be all and end all of SxS's? Certainly not.

Following the results of my testing, do I think that MY Outlaw is reliable for keeping safely loaded and shooting slugs in the confined space of tent at a bear where a 24-30" barrel might be a disadvantage? Hel* yeah.

I believe I was quoting dosing. Unless I have the two of you mixed up or maybe your twins.
 
It's funny you would say that. I remember when the outlaw first came out you were one of the biggest advocats of it. And calling everyone that had anything negative to say about it a "Fudd". What happened were the "Fudds" right?? Here's a nice pic of you shooting your beloved outlaw. :)
Well at at some point in our lives we all did things when we didn't know better. Or had our pictures taken wearing clothes we'd just as soon forget. Fortunately the era of the polyester leisure suit predated the Internet.

If the former owner of an Outlaw declares them inadequate for bear defense I accept that. I don't think it's entirely fair to remind him of his past mistakes but instead welcome him to the side of the debate that came to same conclusion much, much earlier. The Fudd is strong in this one.

Welcome Dosing. May The Fudd be with you. ;)


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I agree, in an ideal situation you are correct, but. I do not want to go the route of more and more guns in truth. One that will do both with assured reliability is what I would ideally like. I was thinking one of the Marlins, but hear stories of failures, and I have past experience with BLRs (though not liking them), and know I can make them run.
I hadnt really thought much of the stuff bigger than the old 338s, but its an option.


With regard to Marlin failures are you talking about a failure of compliance by gunfire on the part of the bear, or are you talking about a mechanical failure on the part of the rifle?

With respect to the bear not being stopped by a .45/70, it can happen, but the rifleman needs to have suitable loads in his rifle and he needs to hit a the bear in a place that stops his forward progression. A bear can't hurt you if he can't touch you, and the primary job of the defensive bear gun is to stop the bear's forward progression. This is more a marksmanship problem, provided the shooter has good knowledge of bear anatomy, than it is a power problem. But the .45/70 is a handloader's cartridge and the best bear loads involve a heavy for caliber WFN hard cast bullet with a MV of about 1800 fps, like MT Chamber's .458/480 gr WFN with a gas check.

The reliability of your rifle cannot be in doubt prior to going afield. If the rifle has a cycling problem, have that addressed before you venture afield. The 1895 Marlin is no different in this regard. The mechanism is perhaps a bit fussy about the cartridge OAL, but with suitable ammo in the magazine, it should and can run without a hiccup. If it cannot, a visit to your gunsmith is in order.
 
You live in the maritimes. You don't need a bear defense gun, you need a Liberal defense gun. Nothing out their more dangerous than a charging bunny rabbit or a wild coyote. .22LR take care of either one.
 
The 1895 Marlin is no different in this regard. The mechanism is perhaps a bit fussy about the cartridge OAL, but with suitable ammo in the magazine, it should and can run without a hiccup. If it cannot, a visit to your gunsmith is in order.

But a short barrel CRF rifle with good iron sights in a powerful caliber that you can shoot well is better, right? ;)
 
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