Bear defense with a 308

dont know about 308 win but my wife killed few years ago a black bear that was between 5 and 10 meters with a 270 win and 150 grains core lockt.

the 375 ruger was useless that day.
 
Salty said:
I've got no dog in the race I was just trying to understand your logic. I've had experiences ranging from weird to WTF just happened?? to well, its dead I guess. .. with C and C bullets I'm not at all a fan of most of them. :)
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I have no dog in any race... this is all flippant banter designed to get us to the next hunting season or range session... For the sake of discussion, I would ask if your WTF experiences with C&C were with standard cartridges at standard velocities... because this is were they excel (IME)... of which the .308 would be one... based on 250+ bears taken with similar equipment, by clients.
 
Flippant banter indeed and in a bear defence thread no less f:P:

K, worse WTF experience was with Winchester factory 180gr power points (I know) out of a 308 at about 50 yards out of a 20" bbl so what. .. 25-2600 ft/s? Small bt buck walking towards me and I went for a chest shot as he took a step to his left to swerve around something I guess. Bullet left about an 8" slice for and aft just through the hide of his right ham and somehow a big chunk of the bullet took bloody nears a 90 and exited the other rear 1/4 :confused: A second broadside shot put him down and left about a softball size exit wound through the off front shoulder. No, I was not overly proud of myself that day.
 
Bears were killed quite effectively prior to the universal availability of premium bullets. When any suitable game bullet impacts a bear's brain cavity at near the muzzle velocity, whatever that happens to be, the cranium being a liquid filled closed vessel, will suffer non-survivable damage, death will come in short order, but more importantly, the bear will stop instantly. That's how its supposed to work in a defensive shooting scenario that takes place at blood on the shoes ranges, making bullet construction almost irrelevant. The problem faced by the shooter is the necessity of making a precise, quick, accurate shot, on a moving target, that is only the width of the bear's snout, hidden within it's massive head.

Then there are additional difficulties which must be overcome if the shot is to succeed, not the least of which includes fear, a target that is in motion, and the angle of elevation if the ground is steep. Fear interferes with target acquisition, with a solid hold on the target, with trigger control, and it tends to compress perceived distance and accelerate perceived time. Target motion presents itself laterally as the bear swings his head from side to side, and horizontally as his head moves with each step, then perhaps dramatically if he steps into an unexpected depression. Shot angle or more correctly shot elevation presents problems related to sight picture if the bear is above or below you. If the range is close, there is sufficient offset between the sights and the point of impact that allowances must be made for the difference, meanwhile the clock is ticking and things are happening.

Its because things don't always occur the way we might expect that I appreciate bullets that penetrate deeply. In the context of defensive shooting, deep, straight line penetration trumps all other considerations, be it accuracy, rate of expansion, or cost, provided that penetration doesn't pose a danger to others. The bullet doesn't break what it doesn't reach, and if the head shot is messed up, or rejected, that bullet had better be able to break and displace bone, and tear up lots of soft tissue, and exit if possible.
 
As others have stated,..I think keeping a cool head under pressure and placing the bullet in the right spot is alot more important than bullet structure. I think having the right type of sighting on your rifle is very important also. I would'nt want to be trying to pick a charging bear at 20 yards or less in a scope. One of the best and probably the fastest target acquiring sight is a good "Red Dot" such as "Aimpoint". I hunted with a red dot sight on a Remington Model 81 300sav for almost 20 years and killed lots of animals with it, and I still put one on my BLR for bear season. Shooting with a red dot on a rifle is as easy as pointing a shot gun,..both eyes open,..pointing the gun not aiming,..red dot instantly finds its target,..and bang, dead animal.
So I think a standard 180gr cup-n-core from a 308 rifle you are confident and accurate with topped with a good red dot sight would be very good defence against bears.
 
Boomer said:
Bears were killed quite effectively prior to the universal availability of premium bullets. When any suitable game bullet impacts a bear's brain cavity at near the muzzle velocity, whatever that happens to be, the cranium being a liquid filled closed vessel, will suffer non-survivable damage, death will come in short order, but more importantly, the bear will stop instantly. That's how its supposed to work in a defensive shooting scenario that takes place at blood on the shoes ranges, making bullet construction almost irrelevant. The problem faced by the shooter is the necessity of making a precise, quick, accurate shot, on a moving target, that is only the width of the bear's snout, hidden within it's massive head.

Then there are additional difficulties which must be overcome if the shot is to succeed, not the least of which includes fear, a target that is in motion, and the angle of elevation if the ground is steep. Fear interferes with target acquisition, with a solid hold on the target, with trigger control, and it tends to compress perceived distance and accelerate perceived time. Target motion presents itself laterally as the bear swings his head from side to side, and horizontally as his head moves with each step, then perhaps dramatically if he steps into an unexpected depression. Shot angle or more correctly shot elevation presents problems related to sight picture if the bear is above or below you. If the range is close, there is sufficient offset between the sights and the point of impact that allowances must be made for the difference, meanwhile the clock is ticking and things are happening.

Its because things don't always occur the way we might expect that I appreciate bullets that penetrate deeply. In the context of defensive shooting, deep, straight line penetration trumps all other considerations, be it accuracy, rate of expansion, or cost, provided that penetration doesn't pose a danger to others. The bullet doesn't break what it doesn't reach, and if the head shot is messed up, or rejected, that bullet had better be able to break and displace bone, and tear up lots of soft tissue, and exit if possible.
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So what you're saying is a 150ttsx is good?
 
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