Bear Gun
- Thread starter madluk18
- Start date
For an alaskan guidea rifle is no doubt better,as he may need to put an anchoring shot into a wounded bear getting away. For pure self defense accuracy is a non issue,as the range is likely to be so close it doesn't matter and it's unlikely you'll have a chance to take fine aim.
I feel like the shotguns aren't getting a fair shake here. First off, lets just agree that regular buckshot is less than ideal,so figure it'll be slugs. Lumping all slugs into the same category is really rather ignorant. Soft Foster style slugs are not proven penetrators,and yet have worked on many occasions. Still, I wouldn't pick them as my first choice. Brenneke's and the like are a different critter altogether,and I would feel pretty comfortable with a tube full of those. I know there not easy to get, but I'm pretty sure they are available in a few places in Canada. Most ideal would be the stuff that Dixie puts out, but I don't think it's available in Canada at this time. Maybe one of the dealers here should look into it? Anyway, take a look at some of their loads. This is some serious stuff, basically turning a shotgun into a 12 gauge rifle with big heavy hard cast bullets. Another interesting load they offer is the Tri-Ball load, which is 3 full bore balls,each around 350gr. Testing done at the Linebaugh seminars showed very impressive performance by the Dixie ammo.
I feel like the shotguns aren't getting a fair shake here. First off, lets just agree that regular buckshot is less than ideal,so figure it'll be slugs. Lumping all slugs into the same category is really rather ignorant. Soft Foster style slugs are not proven penetrators,and yet have worked on many occasions. Still, I wouldn't pick them as my first choice. Brenneke's and the like are a different critter altogether,and I would feel pretty comfortable with a tube full of those. I know there not easy to get, but I'm pretty sure they are available in a few places in Canada. Most ideal would be the stuff that Dixie puts out, but I don't think it's available in Canada at this time. Maybe one of the dealers here should look into it? Anyway, take a look at some of their loads. This is some serious stuff, basically turning a shotgun into a 12 gauge rifle with big heavy hard cast bullets. Another interesting load they offer is the Tri-Ball load, which is 3 full bore balls,each around 350gr. Testing done at the Linebaugh seminars showed very impressive performance by the Dixie ammo.
It's amazing that a factory Ruger SRH in .454 Casull will push a 300gr SP to 1650 fps.
What a shame that ATC's are at the discretion of the CFO's. Maybe that'll be the next thing we work on after the registry is dead.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Excellent plan. Even in modern day single actions in 45LC, such as the Ruger Blackhawk or Vaquero, are capeable of handling loads more potent than the 44 Mag.
- Location
- Niagara Region, Ontario. For now
yeah but why not get the .44 magnum and load them even hotter? 300 grains is 300 grains in either gun. the extra diameter is negligible.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
For the most part you're quite right. Basically six of one and half dozen of another, but, if you keep a bit of uncertainty going, 'reason' for you to get both
.
Actually, there is a bit more difference in diameter which does seem to make a difference. The 44 is about .43 while the 45 Colt is about .454.
I don't think you could get a 300 grain 44 mag to 1650. In Gatehouse's posting of using the 45 Colt cartridge, he was talking about a rifle. If the 45 Colt and the 44 mag rifle are both loaded to the same pressure with a 300 grain bullet, the 45 will have the highest velocity, due to its extra diameter.
I know. Minor difference that neither you nor I, or an irate grizzly bear could ever detect.
I still like my Marlin 44 mag!
If you are stuck using factory ammo, the .44 magnum would probably be the better choice.
A handloaded .45 Colt in a strong firearm will surpass a .44 magnum.
I could make the bullets go faster, I am using more than a regular charge but less than some loads I've seen. I just don't see what practical difference there would be.
Some of the long guns I have carried for defense...
Top Rem 870 Express 14" Dlask barrel 1X EER Burris scope4 round mag tube & factory 18.5" with fiber optic iron sights 7 round mag tube both shotguns are 12 gauge.
Top Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 holds 4 in mag tube & 20" Puma M92 454 Casull that will also handle the far lesser powered 45 Colt's hold 9 454 or 10 45 Colt's in the mag tube.
And my ultimate defense/hunting rifle is a 21" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM holds 3 rounds in the mag.
When I am in grizzly country my go too guns are either the Marlin 45-70 or Rem 375RUM...
Top Rem 870 Express 14" Dlask barrel 1X EER Burris scope4 round mag tube & factory 18.5" with fiber optic iron sights 7 round mag tube both shotguns are 12 gauge.
Top Marlin 1895GS in 45-70 holds 4 in mag tube & 20" Puma M92 454 Casull that will also handle the far lesser powered 45 Colt's hold 9 454 or 10 45 Colt's in the mag tube.
And my ultimate defense/hunting rifle is a 21" barreled Rem 700 LSS in 375RUM holds 3 rounds in the mag.
When I am in grizzly country my go too guns are either the Marlin 45-70 or Rem 375RUM...
If I had bought the 14" Dlask before I bought the Marlin 1895GS I may never have bought the Marlin.
In other words it is very fast handling only issue is the front sight isn't remotely tall enough which is why I have the scope on it.
In other words it is very fast handling only issue is the front sight isn't remotely tall enough which is why I have the scope on it.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Shhhhhh. I was trying to be a good boy and not stir that pot.
The 45 Colt was a favourite cartridge of Elmer Keith, but he developed the magnum from the 44 Special.
I will guess that if there had been a good double action 45 Colt around, we would have had the "45 Magnum," years ago, instead of the 44.
I will guess that if there had been a good double action 45 Colt around, we would have had the "45 Magnum," years ago, instead of the 44.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
IIRC, Elmer blew up a few Colt SAs attempting to hot rod the .45, then gave up and worked exclusively with the .44 Special. Seems that the Colt cylinders didn't have enough meat on them. The .45 didn't come into its own until the advent of the Ruger Blackhawk. From the Blackhawk sprang the Freedom Arms guns, and the super powerhouses from Linebaugh and Bowen.
After reading this informative thread, I took a look at the Marlin site and spotted the Model 1895SBL, a .45-70 big loop lever, that has a full length 6 shot tube, big loop, scout scope mount, and XS ghost rings factory installed. I'm thinking that would be my choice in a lever. I do like my heavily modded DA Grizzly though.
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