Bear rifle. Will 44 mag be enough?

We shot some of our trapline bears with 12 gauge slugs. The one that stood out the most was the one that started eating the bait again after he got shot.:)

I finally got tired of one black yesterday that has treed me twice and shot him yesterday. He finally pissed me off, and he got a frontal shot with a 180 Ballistic Tip out of a Kimber Select Grade in 300 WSM at 15 yards. Crushed him like a beer can, which was about what I expected. Hide squared 6’ 11” so I figure I can round that up. ;) Skull measured 19 1/4”, and old healed fight scars over his left eye went right into his skull. The girth and length chart puts his weight at 425 pounds.

Clients can shoot the bigger cinnamon that hits that bait. Hope they don’t bring a novelty weapon.
 
Evanguy said:
It would kill for 100% sure..but is it ideal? Or would it be better than a rifle?

This thread seems to have moved to bear defence opposed to just killing one while hunting. And to answer the original question yes a 44mag would kill one as would a slug in a shotgun or a muzzle loader.

Not ideal in a defense situation but perfectly capable while hunting
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Please read OP's 1st post.
 
Rman said:
There are far better tools for the job.

R.
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I still wouldn’t say no to a rifle sighted 12g and hard cast slugs for close up predator shots, especially as a left hander. If it’s farther than a slug can do the job it’s not really a threat yet, when it’s closer a proper slug is going to work just fine.
 
Butcherbill said:
I still wouldn’t say no to a rifle sighted 12g and hard cast slugs for close up predator shots, especially as a left hander. If it’s farther than a slug can do the job it’s not really a threat yet, when it’s closer a proper slug is going to work just fine.
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You wouldn't, but you probably should. A bullet is superior every way.

R.
 
0faustus0 said:
And a bazooka is superior to a bullet .... ;)

It is not a question of what is superior .... the question is what is an inexpensive, economical and sufficient tool for the job. And that is the 12ga with the right slug!
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It isn't... by far. It has to be one of the largest perpetuated outdoor myths going.
Inexpensive, economical and sufficient are different for everyone... so that really can't be the bell ringer here. Are those really factors for personal/group safety?
If you had mentioned performance... then would the 12ga still get the toot? Probably not...at least it shouldn't.
Totally up to everyone as to what they want to pack, of course. Given the consideration and the stakes... it really shouldn't be a shotgun.
Pass the swill!

R.
 
brybenn said:
Experience plays a major role to. It's much easier and cheaper to practise with a shotgun than a rifle.
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Is it? Have you bought slugs lately..they are getting up there. It would all depend on the rifle you were trying to feed though..if you had a 308 I'd assume it's cheaper to shoot then 12g slugs
 
Evanguy said:
Is it? Have you bought slugs lately..they are getting up there. It would all depend on the rifle you were trying to feed though..if you had a 308 I'd assume it's cheaper to shoot then 12g slugs
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Most practise with a shotgun can be done with trap load the function mechanics and movement of the gun and action is repetitive. Even heavy field loads which have more recoil are still cheaper than rifle rounds. Plus in my area shotguns can safely be shot on most fields just outside of town whereas rifles need a for sure backstop to catch even rounds fired far off target. Looking at factory rifle ammo the other day scared me at the cost. I reload and cast my own slugs for 12ga. I can control the hardness that I cast as well
Before moving I to town I set up a course in the field with 5 gallon pails full of sand and cast the slugs soft. Alot of us fired alot of slugs running thru the course firing from different ranges out to 50 yards from nearly point blank from different positions. Even had obstacles to jump or climb hits were always more consistent and faster with slug guns than rifles
The group did use shotguns alot more than rifles though. As we're in a shotgun or muzzleloader zone for deer. Us being in southern Ontario most only use their center fire rifles for a week or 2 year and not many practise with them.
I'm sure it depends on where you're from. If I lived in northern Ontario I'd likely use my big bore rifles alot more
 
I carried my Henry 44 mag rifle loaded with 10 Hornady Leverevolution 225gr FTX rounds today out for a walk in the bush. There's Grizzlies, Black Bear and Mountain Lions out here but I didn't feel undergunned. That said, I didn't actually have to use the rifle. Maybe my tune would change if I had to. There is no debating that a full-size rifle cartridge would have more effective terminal performance. I just like the way the Henry carries and think that at defensive distance, measured in feet as opposed to yards, a 44 Mag from a rifle will deliver an effective CNS hit as good as anything else would.
 
brybenn said:
Most practise with a shotgun can be done with trap load the function mechanics and movement of the gun and action is repetitive. Even heavy field loads which have more recoil are still cheaper than rifle rounds. Plus in my area shotguns can safely be shot on most fields just outside of town whereas rifles need a for sure backstop to catch even rounds fired far off target. Looking at factory rifle ammo the other day scared me at the cost. I reload and cast my own slugs for 12ga. I can control the hardness that I cast as well
Before moving I to town I set up a course in the field with 5 gallon pails full of sand and cast the slugs soft. Alot of us fired alot of slugs running thru the course firing from different ranges out to 50 yards from nearly point blank from different positions. Even had obstacles to jump or climb hits were always more consistent and faster with slug guns than rifles
The group did use shotguns alot more than rifles though. As we're in a shotgun or muzzleloader zone for deer. Us being in southern Ontario most only use their center fire rifles for a week or 2 year and not many practise with them.
I'm sure it depends on where you're from. If I lived in northern Ontario I'd likely use my big bore rifles alot more
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All valid points
 
If these threads were really about stopping bears, there would be a lot of vanilla full velocity rifle discussion; I chose .375. Not for bullet weight, or diameter, but for adequate payload at speed. My loads were 235gr CEB Raptors at 2900fps for reference by the end of outfitting. I have to keep in mind my purposes for a bear gun were following a Grizzly that disappeared into tangled alders and devils club after being shot by a .450 Marlin, following sign in fading light where every rock, lump, and old growth log looks like him. You can’t hear much over the sound of the river and fat drops off the alders smacking on the club leaves, while being pursued by an anxious Marlin owner tripping and cursing while getting organic acupuncture through his rain gear. Even though the bear was usually dead and you suspected it would be, the immediacy you want from a rifle in putting down a bear in that scenario is more pressing than the typical, bumping into a bear in the Canadian bush we’re discussing. These threads are actually about will this gun I like using and carrying deter a bear rapidly if I need it to, the answer it has a decent shot and carrying a gun you like isn’t silly.
 
Ardent, did you find the CEB Raptors perform particularily well? I wonder if the CEB 175 Gr 348 Raptor could be your lead free solution in a Model 71. A little extra velocity and only 25 grains under the standard weight. Also availible… in the USA. Maybe someone can bring them into Canada.
 
Thanks for that note babine as I didn’t realise they were supporting the .348.

Long as they were pushed fast they did well, can’t say they’re the be all end all, but they definitely work. I liked a copper .375 bullet they sent to test better, with a segmented nose and heavier, larger petals that shear off. The Raptor petals are quite small shards as the nose is just allen broached, it acts like a relatively stiff bullet on game despite fragmenting the nose off immediately. Not a bad compromise for a stopping rifle at close range, nothing is perfect though.

These days this is all academic for me, no bears to dig out of the devil’s club in my life anymore, I’m only hunting for the freezer with my kids and it’s a much different sport. Still like to debate the merits though. I don’t think I’ll pursue the .348 past a few boxes to get to know it, too many .375s in the cabinet beside it that have it more than covered. But it sure is neat.
 
As a stopping rifle I would not rely on a .44 unless you wait and can stick it in it's mouth or ear. I carried a .44 red hawk for years and always knew if I needed to use it it would be at bad breath range. 5 for the bear 1 for me.
 
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