Your comments are very informative.I try to be risk adverse in my outdoor activities because most of my hunting is solo.I hunted grizzly bear in the Wakeman Sound area back when this was permitted. I saw more grizzlies during those 10 days I hunted than I have ever seen when I hunted black bears (Vancouver Island, West Kootenays). I don't run very fast and would not feel comfortable on the river banks there with a 44mag carbine. Your 375 sounds a lot more reassuring to me.I favor having the most powerful rifle I can carry/shoot if i am in grizzly country. I hunt with a 300WinMag and a 338WinMag. When I am woods loafing I pack a Win71, 348Win with a 220g BarnesX bullet.
Bear rifle. Will 44 mag be enough?
- Thread starter Jdiep
- Start date
Fair enough - Assuming it lands in the right place, it's always going to be about the right combination of bullet design and impact velocity. As long as you're getting "adequate penetration", as it is possible to drive some bullets too fast for their intended use. You're not concerned about the separation that jimbobob was saying he got with the FTX?
Couldn't agree more with the last part.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I think we’ve got too hung up on thinking the bullet holding together at all costs is a metric to judge its effectiveness. I sought options that shed weight on impact, for my work with grizz. Some of the most effective rounds and bullets in history shed a chunk of their weight. Like the .270 with the 130gr cup and cores it built its name on, and the Nosler Partition in general.
What you really need to hit in a bear is seldom under more than 12” of flesh and bone. And anyone who’s cut up game knows the vision of missing everything through the vitals and CNS, only to take out a rear hip by chance, is largely fantasy due to how shot angles work, and the effectiveness of non-vitals / CNS hits in general.
Better to place your bet on getting the job done right in the first 18-24” and making an impact the bear notices, than hoping for a one in many chance of hitting a show stopper further in a distant region of the bear.
What you really need to hit in a bear is seldom under more than 12” of flesh and bone. And anyone who’s cut up game knows the vision of missing everything through the vitals and CNS, only to take out a rear hip by chance, is largely fantasy due to how shot angles work, and the effectiveness of non-vitals / CNS hits in general.
Better to place your bet on getting the job done right in the first 18-24” and making an impact the bear notices, than hoping for a one in many chance of hitting a show stopper further in a distant region of the bear.
Just to clarify, my above comment was in regards to the individuals situation and loading ftx bullet for defence, not a hunting situation.
I don’t subscribe to the tough bullets for hunting everything train of thought. My longest bear dead run was with a 257 and 100 tsx. The bear was also still alive when I came up on it in some really thick, mossy, taggy swamp, making it the slowest killing bullet too. Which was an unpleasant realization a few feet from a wounded bear.
I don’t subscribe to the tough bullets for hunting everything train of thought. My longest bear dead run was with a 257 and 100 tsx. The bear was also still alive when I came up on it in some really thick, mossy, taggy swamp, making it the slowest killing bullet too. Which was an unpleasant realization a few feet from a wounded bear.
mono's lol...still use them?
The second tsx bullet that I put into that bear just beside the eye on a downward angle, that exited the shoulder was the last mono I’ve used.
I switched to 115 grain ballistic tips for the 257 weatherby. The deer dropped immediately. The wound channel was nothing but destructive.
I’ve also had good luck with partitions in a 35 whelen, this springs bear went a very short distance and expired quickly. My wife spun and dropped a bear last spring with a partition in her 243.
Don’t foresee monos in my near future.
Solid choice, the 115 NBT kicks derrier in the 257 ‘bee. The 100 gr is pushing it on the soft fast side, but results tend toward the spectacular side on deer size game.
When my son was just starting his hunting journey I set him up with a Mark V in 257 Weatherby. That particular rifle would shoot 100 grain TSXs and 100 NBTs interchangeably and in those days we had 9 deer tags and pretty much as many under subscribed mule deer doe tags over the counter that you could want. There was also an earn a buck program where if you shoot 2 MD does and took the heads in they’d give a buck tag and two more doe tags. About all he knew about his ammo is that some had blue tips and the others didn’t. Didn’t take long before he was asking me why the deer he shot with the blue tips piled up and the ones he shot without always seemed to run. Explained how they were completely opposite bullets and one made a wound channel the size and shape of a football that probably would reach the hide on the other side, whereas the copper bullet would probably shoot through 17
deer with a hole the size of a broomstick on a good day. He asked if he could stick to the NBTs and I agreed. He was a half smart kid for a 12 year old, with a really bad dad
. The lessons you learn yourself are the best.
When my son was just starting his hunting journey I set him up with a Mark V in 257 Weatherby. That particular rifle would shoot 100 grain TSXs and 100 NBTs interchangeably and in those days we had 9 deer tags and pretty much as many under subscribed mule deer doe tags over the counter that you could want. There was also an earn a buck program where if you shoot 2 MD does and took the heads in they’d give a buck tag and two more doe tags. About all he knew about his ammo is that some had blue tips and the others didn’t. Didn’t take long before he was asking me why the deer he shot with the blue tips piled up and the ones he shot without always seemed to run. Explained how they were completely opposite bullets and one made a wound channel the size and shape of a football that probably would reach the hide on the other side, whereas the copper bullet would probably shoot through 17
deer with a hole the size of a broomstick on a good day. He asked if he could stick to the NBTs and I agreed. He was a half smart kid for a 12 year old, with a really bad dad
. The lessons you learn yourself are the best.love this kid! haha, awesome shareSolid choice, the 115 NBT kicks derrier in the 257 ‘bee. The 100 gr is pushing it on the soft fast side, but results tend toward the spectacular side on deer size game.
When my son was just starting his hunting journey I set him up with a Mark V in 257 Weatherby. That particular rifle would shoot 100 grain TSXs and 100 NBTs interchangeably and in those days we had 9 deer tags and pretty much as many under subscribed mule deer doe tags over the counter that you could want. There was also an earn a buck program where if you shoot 2 MD does and took the heads in they’d give a buck tag and two more doe tags. About all he knew about his ammo is that some had blue tips and the others didn’t. Didn’t take long before he was asking me why the deer he shot with the blue tips piled up and the ones he shot without always seemed to run. Explained how they were completely opposite bullets and one made a wound channel the size and shape of a football that probably would reach the hide on the other side, whereas the copper bullet would probably shoot through 17
deer with a hole the size of a broomstick on a good day. He asked if he could stick to the NBTs and I agreed. He was a half smart kid for a 12 year old, with a really bad dad
Size and shape of a football, and a broomstick is a perfect way to describe it. Even the TSX bullet that penetrated through the skull, neck, and shoulder was no bigger wound channel or exit hole than the broadside hole through the boiler room.Solid choice, the 115 NBT kicks derrier in the 257 ‘bee. The 100 gr is pushing it on the soft fast side, but results tend toward the spectacular side on deer size game.
When my son was just starting his hunting journey I set him up with a Mark V in 257 Weatherby. That particular rifle would shoot 100 grain TSXs and 100 NBTs interchangeably and in those days we had 9 deer tags and pretty much as many under subscribed mule deer doe tags over the counter that you could want. There was also an earn a buck program where if you shoot 2 MD does and took the heads in they’d give a buck tag and two more doe tags. About all he knew about his ammo is that some had blue tips and the others didn’t. Didn’t take long before he was asking me why the deer he shot with the blue tips piled up and the ones he shot without always seemed to run. Explained how they were completely opposite bullets and one made a wound channel the size and shape of a football that probably would reach the hide on the other side, whereas the copper bullet would probably shoot through 17
deer with a hole the size of a broomstick on a good day. He asked if he could stick to the NBTs and I agreed. He was a half smart kid for a 12 year old, with a really bad dad
Even a colour blind kid can follow a 20 yard blood trail from a broomstick hole. lol.
x100
you would have had to fiddle fart with you scope. You would never have got him. 1000 extra fps is a nice to have
you sure? what scope is on that rifle? we run 3-9x accupoint green dot duplex or mil-dot at 3x....they don't get touched unless we're gonna bomb some across the valley, is that a fixed 6x36 I see there? the last two my kids shot were with a green dot reflex sight at 100, drt's pdq
but primarily 3x with a nice illum. dot is pretty fast and intuitive, now have some 1-6x, 1.5-5x and a fixed 2.5x rounding out the scopes on our 4 main rifles ready to go...the high mag scope is still a 3-9x accupoint green dot, everything else is an lpvo or the fixed 2.5x now...you making assumptions again? and I'm very finicky about things shouldering to proper eye alignment with sight height to comb for fast shooting possibilities, we are hunters onlyor are you suggesting it was a really far shot and used the Weatherby rangefinder solution? that's cool, my kids have dialled up 300 and 355 and point blanked to 240 pretty quick also, you win then
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I always use the 100 grain NBT in my 257 Weatherby. I only use it for deer and possibly antelope in the future. I would hesitate to use it for bear, many other cartridges I prefer to use for those critters with teeth and claws.
Blakeyboy,
If you liked my kids thought process you’ll love his follow up question. He was /is a serious kid, and after solving his bullet choice issue and giving it some thought approached me like this;
He “ Uh, dad? If the difference is so huge, why would anyone ever use the copper bullets?”
Me “Well son, a characteristic of the monos is that they have extreme penetration and for a couple extreme cases that can be an advantage, as long as you understand that you’re giving up practically everything else to get it. Its probably the best thing around for taking a Texas heart shot on a moose for instance, if you think that thats a good idea. Might be others.”
Long thoughtful pause.
He “When are they going to start working?”
Me: “probably never, if by working you mean doing what you actually want , instead of being great for something you don’t even want to do. On the otherhand, if you mean working as designed they are already doing that, you just don’t like the results”
He: “Hmm, i think I’ll stick to the Noslers if thats OK”
If you liked my kids thought process you’ll love his follow up question. He was /is a serious kid, and after solving his bullet choice issue and giving it some thought approached me like this;
He “ Uh, dad? If the difference is so huge, why would anyone ever use the copper bullets?”
Me “Well son, a characteristic of the monos is that they have extreme penetration and for a couple extreme cases that can be an advantage, as long as you understand that you’re giving up practically everything else to get it. Its probably the best thing around for taking a Texas heart shot on a moose for instance, if you think that thats a good idea. Might be others.”
Long thoughtful pause.
He “When are they going to start working?”
Me: “probably never, if by working you mean doing what you actually want , instead of being great for something you don’t even want to do. On the otherhand, if you mean working as designed they are already doing that, you just don’t like the results”
He: “Hmm, i think I’ll stick to the Noslers if thats OK”
