Bear rifle. Will 44 mag be enough?

[apu]

I have shot quite a few black bear, anything from 410 slug , 30/30, 30 06, 300 win mag, 45/70. What I have learned is don't use a 410 slug, lol. Its probably not much better than a pistol round and In my defense it was at the time a choice of absolute need not preference. The 300 win mag is absolutely devastating with a good hunting bullet. Most 30 cal rounds with good bullets are ok too. A 45/70 with a hard cast lead bullet not such a great choice, it just penciled right through, a soft lead or hunting projectile would be much better. Next one will be with a 458 lott and premium hunting bullet just because I can and because I have no suitable angry rhinos on my property

 

[Ardent]

You’ll find the Lott impresses, where the .45-70 often doesn’t. Key isn’t a mystery, but worth reiterating, impacts above 2200fps make for a phase shift in on game effect. And more is indeed helpful, but 2200 is the bare min, which typically means 2400fps bare minimum at the muzzle which is Lott country.

 

[Dogleg]

Its a bit caliber sensitive, larger calibers start kicking ass around the 2200fps mark but things iin the more normal 7- 7.62 mm range come alive at 2600 fps.. with boringly regular bullets its more or less the threshold for the phenomena commonly called hydra-stadic shock. I’d rather use “stunning” instead of shock but tomato/tomoughto. I’ll not go into an discussion about whether it exists , or whether its reliable, or whether the name is technically correct, or whether shock is the right word but we all know that sometimes animals hit through the boiler room often go down deader faster than an animal with the top of its head shot off. Theres a lot more to the nervous system than the CNS. The autonomic plexes are bundles of nerves that basically are hard wired. You don’t have to remind your heart to beat, or your digestive tract to work, and just about every day you can go to sleep without dieing. If you had an elephant on an operating table you could take it out with a scalpel, but you probably don’t and neither do I. Out of the three main thorasic plexes my favourite is the vagous nerve. It wanders around like a vagabond doing a bunch of things and on females ends at the cervix. That almost describes my idea of a perfect life. It would be a better story if it ended at the other /other C word, but then apparently lots of guys couldn’t find it.

What were we talking about again? Oh, so anyways, it goes so far to explaining why heavy for caliber mild caliber guys insist that fatally shot game almost always runs, normal range magnum velocity guys think they’re full of kaka. Might explain gut shots that kill instantly from all visual cues. Goes a long to explaining why the bush range hunter with a 30-06 shooting whatever standard factory ammo is on sale can’t comprehend why someone else might want more gun. How about hits just above the heart killing way faster than one square through the pump. Jack O’Connor explained that one me to when I was 8; he didn’t know why, and I didn’t care then but he wasn’t wrong.


Or maybe it doesn’t explain anything, I had fun typing it anyway.

 

[Ardent]

Here’s a couple recent stories I’ve read, and I appreciate their honesty as they mirrored what I saw on big bears with big slow chamberings. The first shot would indeed have been fatal each time, but without the immediacy of something of modern pace. Wounds were much cleaner, which told the story of less work done to my mind. The bang flop is handy when the mystery & magic decides to show, but I’m here for the greater general terminal effects- with a significant bonus should you get the shock.

The pictures are from out in the north coast rivers and creeks last week, and what I had to follow bears through in far worse weather when they took a last run. They push through it like it isn’t there, and it pops back and closes up right behind them. Not to mention the rivers they’d cross wounded, and the myriad of places a large bear can go to die out of sight here.

If I beat this dead horse too often, it was such a common conversation and misconception I had to bust with American clients who love big bores, but quietly won’t admit they’re not interested in shooting .458 Lott recoil to get 2400fps. Hey, neither am I. But we’d go through this back and forth, where by the end of it I’d have to just ask if they owned a .30-06, 7 Mag, or .300? Of course they did, and after an hour you could usually talk them into it.

JEFF "TANK" HOOVER We were rewarded with the tell-tale “thump” of the big 400-grain bullet hitting flesh. The bull reacted but didn’t take a step. “Hit him again,” Austin said as I worked the lever.

Once again we heard the “whump” of the bullet hitting. The bull turned, facing us, head drooping low and stopping me from taking a frontal chest shot. The bull finally exposed his chest and I fired my third and final shot.

….475 Turnbull. Pushed with 56 grains of IMR 4198, muzzle velocity is 2,070 fps.

From 27 yards, boxed in by a blackthorn thicket, Turnbull fired a 400-grain TSX directly through the broadside bull’s heart and lungs.

As it exploded through the brush, running across in front of us, he fired a second shot, which deflected on a branch and impacted the flank area.

At the second shot the bull pinpointed us and charged like a demoniac locomotive. Standing fast, Turnbull ran that lever gun like John Wayne and drove another bullet through the vitals. As the bull rounded the dense thornbush directly in front of us, Turnbull and Strauss fired simultaneously from five yards. Turnbull’s 400-grain solid punched through the bull’s ear, drove into its neck, and traveled lengthwise through the buffalo, taking out a section of spine. Strauss’s Hornady 500-grain DGX Bonded from his .470 Nitro Express rifle brained the bull perfectly. It came crashing down in a cloud of dust four short paces in front of us.

Mr. Turnbull and his rebuilt Winchester Model 1886 held off that bull in grand fashion.

 

[big bear]

Its a bit caliber sensitive, larger calibers start kicking ass around the 2200fps mark but things iin the more normal 7- 7.62 mm range come alive at 2600 fps.. with boringly regular bullets its more or less the threshold for the phenomena commonly called hydra-stadic shock. I’d rather use “stunning” instead of shock but tomato/tomoughto. I’ll not go into an discussion about whether it exists , or whether its reliable, or whether the name is technically correct, or whether shock is the right word but we all know that sometimes animals hit through the boiler room often go down deader faster than an animal with the top of its head shot off. Theres a lot more to the nervous system than the CNS. The autonomic plexes are bundles of nerves that basically are hard wired. You don’t have to remind your heart to beat, or your digestive tract to work, and just about every day you can go to sleep without dieing. If you had an elephant on an operating table you could take it out with a scalpel, but you probably don’t and neither do I. Out of the three main thorasic plexes my favourite is the vagous nerve. It wanders around like a vagabond doing a bunch of things and on females ends at the cervix. That almost describes my idea of a perfect life. It would be a better story if it ended at the other /other C word, but then apparently lots of guys couldn’t find it.

What were we talking about again? Oh, so anyways, it goes so far to explaining why heavy for caliber mild caliber guys insist that fatally shot game almost always runs, normal range magnum velocity guys think they’re full of kaka. Might explain gut shots that kill instantly from all visual cues. Goes a long to explaining why the bush range hunter with a 30-06 shooting whatever standard factory ammo is on sale can’t comprehend why someone else might want more gun. How about hits just above the heart killing way faster than one square through the pump. Jack O’Connor explained that one me to when I was 8; he didn’t know why, and I didn’t care then but he wasn’t wrong.


Or maybe it doesn’t explain anything, I had fun typing it anyway.

With all due respect to you and Jack O'Connor I would like to share an experience I had with a heart shot. I took a 6pt elk at 400yds off a comfortable boulder rest, at an uphill angle of about 20 degrees. the bull was feeding on the side of the mountain and unaware of me.My shot took out the right atrium . The elk collapsed on the spot and pumped out a lot of blood. My buddy, a long time guide , commented that the meat was the "lightest" he had ever seen. We attributed that to the elk bleeding out. The meat was great.I was using a 300 WinMag, Remington 180gr plain vanilla Core Lockt. I have used that for all the elk(except 1), moose and sheep, goat and caribou i have killed, plus some of the black bears. I use it because my rifle shoots it more accurately than any other commercial loads. I reload more now so I play with other bullets.

The one elk I didn't use my 300WinMag on was taken with the Remington 338WinMag 225gr Corelokt bullet. That bull took 3 shots just behind the shoulder , a 3" group , at 250yds. That elk , also taken while feeding, just stood there. His cows took off, then he slowly walked out of sight.My guide thought I had missed. We found the elk about 25yds away from where he was shot dead as could be.
Your thoughts on the results noted. I still hunt mostly with 300WinMaqg 180gr coreLokt for most all game.

Cheers and good hunting.

 

[Dogleg]

I’ve got no problem with your observation of the high heart shot giving an instant collapse, I find it usually works faster than a shot square through the heart. No problem with the 300 Win or the corelock bullet either. I’ve also shot groups on animals that couldn’t decide which direction to fall over. I don’t think we’re disagreeing, or least I’m not.

 

[big bear]

I’ve got no problem with your observation of the high heart shot giving an instant collapse, I find it usually works faster than a shot square through the heart. No problem with the 300 Win or the corelock bullet either. I’ve also shot groups on animals that couldn’t decide which direction to fall over. I don’t think we’re disagreeing, or least I’m not.

Thanks for reply, I do indeed agree with your observations.
Cheers!

 

[KaneZoR]

Oops