Bear Spray A Lot Better Than Bullets
- Thread starter KDX
- Start date
Bearspray?? Why not just give him a can of Montreal Steak Spice!!
I agree with the idea that the average urban "think's he's a camper", should carry a bottle.
For hunters and bushmen, the choice is obvious.
I do alot of backwoods camping in bear country WITH my wife and kids. Personally, I'm not going to screw around with a can of spray if Yogi shows up in my camp perimeter...
Having a dog is a good deterrant too...
I agree with the idea that the average urban "think's he's a camper", should carry a bottle.
For hunters and bushmen, the choice is obvious.
I do alot of backwoods camping in bear country WITH my wife and kids. Personally, I'm not going to screw around with a can of spray if Yogi shows up in my camp perimeter...
Having a dog is a good deterrant too...
Spray/ gun, bear defense/ camp defense, nothing work as well as a barking dog to buy you sometime to get your tools out.
As far as spray goes, I saw some lady buying a can last week when I was at lebaron. She wanted the "smaller" can becuase she doesn't think that she'll need "that much" as she puts it. I can figure out the logic in that.
As far as spray goes, I saw some lady buying a can last week when I was at lebaron. She wanted the "smaller" can becuase she doesn't think that she'll need "that much" as she puts it. I can figure out the logic in that.
Sometimes. There's been quite a few instances however of people finding their dog wanders out of sight and comes tearing back with a bear in hot pursuit.
Something to keep an eye out for, and really your dog should be in sight at all times when you're out in the woods.
- Location
- Lakes District BC
umm didnt we just go through this a while ago... .... ..... .... ..... .....OH YEA dog gets smoked running free in bush LAW says dog must be in your control at all times with the exeption of hunting certain species in BC
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I'd love to kill it too, there's no doubt. But lets face it - if a bear gets within 10 feet your chances of readying your firearm and bringing it to bear on the bear (
I'd rather use my spray and force the bear to break off - and then shoot it before it gets its whits about it. That's a much easier kill that trying to get a good round off at a charging shape with no real time to aim while it's at your feet.
If i SAW the bear before hand and had time to get ready, that's different. but the bear would never make it within 10 feet. However often attacks happen suddenly and with no warning.
At 10 feet? I think there's another reason you've discounted the gun - there is no time unless you happen to be lucky enough to have it in your hands already. To be honest if the bear is charging at 10 feet i doubt there's enough time for the spray, but you've got a much better chance.
But lets say it breaks cover at 15 -20 yards and you notice it. By the time you can react at all, it's likely closed to under 10 yards. At that point if you happen to be one of the lucky few who is allowed to carry a pistol, you MIGHT get off a shot if you've got it in a holster and you've practiced a hell of a lot. But i don't care who you are - getting a rifle or shotgun off your shoulder, arming it, and aiming and hitting the bear in the time you've got is just not going to happen, you're talking about less than a second, and that's if you didn't 'freeze' at all. The best you can hope for really is that the noise and blast will cause the bear to break off (which does happen) and that's if you even get a round off at all. But spray fired from the hip inside the holster IS a viable option and stands a good chance of breaking the charge.
once the charge is broken, you have time to ready your gun and shoot the bear.
And at ten yards or less fired in a line with the bear (and not pointed like a pistol) the spray will work just fine even under very windy conditions.
That's probably true - tho again your chances of getting to your spray and using it are better than a gun. You can just hose down the brush in the direction you think the bear is in and stand a good chance of discouraging the bear for a short time.
It's really not that bad - if you get a blast full in the face you're going to be pretty f-ed up for an hour or so. But most of the time you're talking about a light misting that's blown in your face by the wind or something, and while it's painful it's not disabling.
Word of advice tho - DO NOT TOUCH YOUR FACE WITH YOUR HAND
Virtually all bear experts agree that is not true. Air horns CAN be highly useful in announcing your presence and scaring off bears before an encounter - but once the bear is in sight and is hostile, as you mention what they've found is that there's a good chance that your noisemaker will scare the bear right towards you. They are more useful in chasing off a non-hostile bear that's poking around where it shoulnd't be - and shouldn't be used without a firearm or at least spray as a back up.
The fact is - bear spray has worked and worked very well in literally hundreds of cases. That's too many to dispute - it works. Period. Nobody in those situations is ever 'disabled', tho some are in pain if they get a little in their eyes. (but less pain than being eaten
The problem with spray is, as you mention, the range has to be very short (compared to a gun). The 30 feet that most manufacturers suggest is slightly optimistic, and more like 20 - 25 feet is realistic. So you have to have big brass ones and hold your fire until then or you'll use up your spray before the bear is even in range.
Also - with sprays it's been noted that bears (black bears in particular) will often re-attack a short time later. YOu could easily run out of spray before you run out of bear.
But - it's very easy to have with you, you never need to put it down, it is FAST - at LEAST as fast as a pistol, and it does not need to be aimed much. That gives it a huge edge over a rifle/shotgun in some circumstances. It's also legal pretty much everywhere. Even in the city, so if you're at a local park where there's bears (which is often the case in bc) you can still carry it. You can also hose down a bear even if it's already got ahold of someone in your party.
Spray is also much much cheaper and easier to teach people to use - so it's easier to arm everyone in your party, even those who've never used a gun before.
Guns are obviously longer range, and very effective. But - the are heavier, they often need to be put down while you do something, and they are slower unless you know the bear is out there and have readied in advance. (often not the case). They have the advantage of settling the dispute permanently tho
Which brings me back to my original statement. Bear spray works. We KNOW that. Anyone who says different either doesn't know how to use it or is kidding themselves - there's WAY too many actual uses to argue differently. But it has some nasty limitations. And it's no guarantee of safety.
Longguns are effective too - but they have limits too, and are often not a viable option in a specific circumstance. Lots of people have been killed by a bear while holding a gun. A lot more have been killed with their gun leaning against a tree or still back on the atv well out of reach.
If you understand both well and what each can and cannot do, you can mix and match your tools to your circumstances and have much better 'coverage' in a wider range of circumstances.
The effects of spray are not trivial or minor. Permanent eye damage can result, and if you are alone in a remote area, trying to find your way out while blind is not a pleasant prospect. I know a fellow who after more than a year continues to have eye problems from spray that blew back onto him, and his exposure was not severe. But I'm talking about bear spray, not the stuff the mailman carries to discourage a dog.
Anytime you are moving through heavy cover, your firearm should be in your hands and ready. As I said earlier, if you stumble onto a bear under these conditions and you are remain uninjured once you realize what has happened, the bear probably isn't interested in you.
If a bear approaches me, I have a simple test it is required to pass. If I run at it and it runs away, all is good and we both live another day. If he doesn't run away and continues to approach, the proper response is "Bang!" not squirt.
I agree that air horns leave something to be desired, but if they are used in conjuncture with other deterrents they can be effective. Once the air horn has proven ineffectual, you still have the opportunity to escalate to a more permanent solution should the situation warrant it, because you haven't had to wait until the very last second to deploy it as you must with spray.
I doubt if the scenario where you squirt the bear then switch to the gun is workable. For the spray to be effective the range is close, if it drops the bear or drives it off there's little need to shoot. If it doesn't drop the bear, because you sprayed too soon, you won't have time to consider another option and your problems are over.
All the same, I'm not opposed to spray because it doesn't work. It works, provided it is used with the appropriate range, which is about 10' in order to asphyxiate the bear and knock him down. My objection is due to the level of risk that spray subjects the user to. The risks includes blowback, walking through contaminated cover, and having to wait until a dangerous bear is too close for the average person to be able to deploy the spray in an effective manner.
You can take all the precautions in the world, and still end up being killed by a wild animal. The only way to totally avoid this risk is to not enter bear habitat. Carrying a gun is not for everyone, and those who choose this option had better realize that holding a gun not more makes you armed than owning a piano makes you a musician.
What then are the options? Well, if spray is carried in place of a firearm, you had better have good control of your fear. It may very well save your life, but in order to do so spray must be deployed at very close range. Cracker shell guns will move along all but the most obstinate bears, and that's one reason I like them. Once the bear is moving, an air horn or rubber bullets will keep him moving.
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I have never heard of anyone being permanently blinded by oleoresin capsicum in the concentrations found in bear spray - certanly never from 'blowback'. I think you'll have to provide some sort of evidence that this is even possible.
That's a great system - but it depends on you seeing the bear first before it decides to charge. That often isn't how it works.
Absolutely. Another 'tool' people should be aware of and knowledgable about. Used properly they can help avoid bear issues AND have other benefits (Signal for help, if a member of the party gets seperated, etc.)
One of the unfortunate weakenesses of sprays is that it's quite common for the spray to work just fine and send the bear packing - only to have it return in a few minutes and re-engage. Sometimes they don't leave the area either.
In such cases where you're attacked suddenly and go for your spray, it'd be very wise to ready your gun and shoot on sight if the bear returns, hostile or not.
All perfectly valid. If i have a choice or the time, i'll go for the gun every time. It's more like a soldier carrying a rifle and a pistol if you know what i mean - the pistol is for fighting your way back to your rifle
Other than the obvious cases (like where guns aren't allowed) sprays are most useful where you will likely be putting your gun down once in a while, or in cases where you're attacked without warning by a bear you didn't see till it started to charge. In those cases, it can be a real life saver.
Yup. No matter what you do, sometimes the bear gets it right.
It's important to know all the tools available and how to use 'em, and then build a system that works for you and PRACTICE with it.
One of the dangers of spray is that people think they don't need to practice or learn how to use it. In THAT respect, sprays can be very dangerous - like anything you need to know how to use it, it's too late to figure out when you need it. Of course, the same can be said of guns. Too many hunters think they'll be fine in an attack, but shooting deer isn't the same as dealing with a charging bear.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Bear charges can occur for a number of reasons, but regardless of the reason the presence of the bear and it’s approach can pose a very dangerous situation; yet the approach might not be what a person might identify as a charge. Very often predators don't charge until the range is very close, at which point the attack is explosive and violent. By the time this happens, very often the subject of the attack is out of luck. Bear charges can occur for a number of reasons, but regardless of the reason a bear can approach without it being what a person might identify as a charge. Very often predators don't charge until the range is very close, at which point the attack is explosive and violent. One scenario is that an individual gets too close to a bear, either through curiosity or because he simply doesn't see it. Once he is aware of the bear's presence, he attempts to back away, but the bear now approaches and closes the distance. Moving at them aggressively will do one of to things, put them into a flight response or into a fight response. Either way the bear decides the out come.
Bear spray may not cause permanent blindness, but if you are unable to see for several days, that's a pretty big deal out there. All I'm trying to say is that bear spray is intended to rapidly to asphyxiate a large dangerous animal, so the effects to a human being are not benign, as my pal found out. Even if permanent blindness is not the issue, months of blurred vision, swelling, and redness can result. If you are in an area where wind is almost always present, or if you intend to be in heavy cover, the risk of exposure to the spray must be considered.
Here again though is where an individual can run into trouble with bear spray. The scenario you suggest is where the spray is deployed, the bear runs off only to return. If the individual waited until the last possible moment to deploy the spray, the bear would cease to be a risk until the persons were able to clear the area. I believe that if you are going to use spray, you have to wait.
Bear spray may not cause permanent blindness, but if you are unable to see for several days, that's a pretty big deal out there. All I'm trying to say is that bear spray is intended to rapidly to asphyxiate a large dangerous animal, so the effects to a human being are not benign, as my pal found out. Even if permanent blindness is not the issue, months of blurred vision, swelling, and redness can result. If you are in an area where wind is almost always present, or if you intend to be in heavy cover, the risk of exposure to the spray must be considered.
Here again though is where an individual can run into trouble with bear spray. The scenario you suggest is where the spray is deployed, the bear runs off only to return. If the individual waited until the last possible moment to deploy the spray, the bear would cease to be a risk until the persons were able to clear the area. I believe that if you are going to use spray, you have to wait.
You must comply with the Provincial regulations. Most places say you can't have a firearm in hands after sunset in areas where big games live. Having a hunting liscence and the right gun for the job might help getting out of doubts, though.
And, then, our CDN Gvt says;
"Chemical bear repellents/bear sprays contain a derivative of cayenne pepper. When sprayed directly into an animal's face, they cause eye and upper respiratory tract irritation. Although such sprays can be effective when used properly, wind and other circumstances may alter their effect on the animal. Therefore, use them with caution and always follow the manufacturer's directions. Bear sprays do not guarantee your safety."
from the Park Canada website; http://www.pc.gc.ca/docs/v-g/oursnoir-blackbear/page4_e.asp
So, to be frank, nothing can really garantee 100% security, the proof being last friday incident (with the 70 yrs old lady) who was never able to pull out her spray can (even if she had a handgun, one can think of the same end for her).
There is always a certain part of "risk" in using pepper, being some spray fume "affected by wind" that flows back in the shooter's face, then you still can try to rub your face against the bear's fur... while it rub his own face against your shirt....
The main problem with firearms is the degree of stress the shooter experiences; loading a gun may be somewhat difficult under panic.
I say, if in doubt, carry both, a gun and a can of spray... who knows...(half-JOKE!) A very good way to keep bears away is to use a simple "bear" bell, and walk in groups of two or more people. We tend to forget silly things.
And, then, our CDN Gvt says;
"Chemical bear repellents/bear sprays contain a derivative of cayenne pepper. When sprayed directly into an animal's face, they cause eye and upper respiratory tract irritation. Although such sprays can be effective when used properly, wind and other circumstances may alter their effect on the animal. Therefore, use them with caution and always follow the manufacturer's directions. Bear sprays do not guarantee your safety."
from the Park Canada website; http://www.pc.gc.ca/docs/v-g/oursnoir-blackbear/page4_e.asp
So, to be frank, nothing can really garantee 100% security, the proof being last friday incident (with the 70 yrs old lady) who was never able to pull out her spray can (even if she had a handgun, one can think of the same end for her).
There is always a certain part of "risk" in using pepper, being some spray fume "affected by wind" that flows back in the shooter's face, then you still can try to rub your face against the bear's fur... while it rub his own face against your shirt....
The main problem with firearms is the degree of stress the shooter experiences; loading a gun may be somewhat difficult under panic.
I say, if in doubt, carry both, a gun and a can of spray... who knows...(half-JOKE!) A very good way to keep bears away is to use a simple "bear" bell, and walk in groups of two or more people. We tend to forget silly things.
Seriously boomer - i've never heard of a single case of anyone being blinded for days, or even hours. In fact - i've never heard of anyone 'blinded' at all - it's hard to see but you still can. And that lasts only a short time.
I think you may be thinking about mace. That's a whole different thing. They symptoms you describe should never happen with pepper spray. Police wouldn't use it if it did. Mace operates on entirely different principles and is far more dangerous to people, but pepper spray doesnt' have that kind of effect that i've ever heard of. The only thing i could think of that might cause that is some sort of anaphylactic reaction due to allergies or something like that.
No, it really isn't designed to do anything of the kind. Again - sounds more like mace. The capiscum simply reacts with the mucous membranes in the eyes, nose and throat/lungs to cause pain and discomfort - no different than if you handle a jalapeno pepper then touch your eye. It will not interfere with the oxygen flow to the lungs in the slightest.
That is often not the case, regardless of range or dose. The bear will often re-engage the person within 5 minutes or so.
Well that's fairly true - it's got to be within the effective range and that's going to be about 20 feet or so. That's aweful damn close.
well, as y can see, I'm not hunter and I don't have a hunting license, so for me if I go for hiking for a day or so...the only choice is to have Bear Spray with me, to avoid a conversation or seized firearms if meet with conservation officers for having a firearm with me. I would have a firearm in camp or tent with but when hiking...I guess Spray and Machete or axe would be the choice of people who has no hunting license.
- Location
- Lakes District BC
well I have seen a guy "SPRAY" himself, it was pretty interesting watching Jake get the hell out of the cab of a d20 at after the seat rocked over and crushed a can of bear spray, his eyes wattered and bothered him for the day but he could still see nuff to move around and the main irritant was easily washed away with water.
there are also numerous cases of bears re engaging after being sprayed with a good dose, there are also cases were the spray put directly into a bears face had ZERO effect on the animal, also I have seen spray put on a rock and watched a bear lick it off, as I said earlier there is also the failure rate in spray, we cant compair a firearm to spray in that sence because I can physicaly maintain my firearm and test it, a can of spray either works or it dosnt.
If I forget a safety on my gun or to load it thats my stupidity and correctable, I pull the trigger on a can of spray and its dead I could be to!
there are also numerous cases of bears re engaging after being sprayed with a good dose, there are also cases were the spray put directly into a bears face had ZERO effect on the animal, also I have seen spray put on a rock and watched a bear lick it off, as I said earlier there is also the failure rate in spray, we cant compair a firearm to spray in that sence because I can physicaly maintain my firearm and test it, a can of spray either works or it dosnt.
If I forget a safety on my gun or to load it thats my stupidity and correctable, I pull the trigger on a can of spray and its dead I could be to!
Bear Attack
Winner of the Outdoor Channel 'Best Big Game Footage' Award. Fred Eichler has another hair raising adventure in the wild & gets charged by a huge momma bear. The boys where floating down river in search of a new camp & ended up in a life or death situation.
http://www.hunttv.com/video/latest/26
For some reason I don't think I would be reaching for the spray
Winner of the Outdoor Channel 'Best Big Game Footage' Award. Fred Eichler has another hair raising adventure in the wild & gets charged by a huge momma bear. The boys where floating down river in search of a new camp & ended up in a life or death situation.
http://www.hunttv.com/video/latest/26
For some reason I don't think I would be reaching for the spray
Here's a good one as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc&feature=related
Watch it, then think about grabbing for your spray can while it's happening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc&feature=related
Watch it, then think about grabbing for your spray can while it's happening.
- Location
- British Canuckistan
now he could have made the comment about shooting in front of the bear to scare it off to cover embarrassment, but he did say he shot it in front of the bear hoping to scare it off.Wouldn't be reaching for a pistol either in canada.
And he missed
