Bear spray experiences, had an interesting one last night.

Keep your expired cans and use them to practice fire in a location where it is safe and legal to do so. Especially newbs to bear spray should test fire a can to see how far it goes and how it is affected by wind.

If you are going to test fire bear spray have LOTS of cool clean water, soap and a towel in case of contamination. Also no contact lenses.
 
Bland said:
Cannot confirm specific to bears but having spent most of my life around many different types of animals, both domestic and wild, when they lay their ears back they are pi$$ed.
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But the ears are forward and alert when they are stalking!
 
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My favorite bear repellent says .375 H&H Magnum on the barrel........if an area doesn't allow me to have it then I don't go there ie: National Parks..........it's really just that simple.

Wife carries bear spray when travelling without me..........but it has nothing to do with bears......there are a lot more scary things out there than bears and they usually walk upright. Bear spray has been proven to be about 99% effective for those predators!
 
geologist said:
Keep your expired cans and use them to practice fire in a location where it is safe and legal to do so. Especially newbs to bear spray should test fire a can to see how far it goes and how it is affected by wind.

If you are going to test fire bear spray have LOTS of cool clean water, soap and a towel in case of contamination. Also no contact lenses.
Click to expand...

That's what we do with all of our expired spray. The student geologists all get to try it out.
 
Sorry Ardent, I realized this afternoon that I never mentioned if my encounter was a Black or Grizzly. Mine was a Black, and I didn't report it as the sow was not hostile in any way. I went fetal for one reason she had cubs and I had no way of moving away without drawing attention to myself. It was my own stupidity that caused the situation to begin with and I was very lucky.

As for the shoot first method, I can only say this, I carry a rifle or shotgun in the bush. It is loaded and ready to go, the ONLY bear I have shot was a Black bear while hunting for Black bear. If a situation arises where a bear is to close for comfort, or is showing aggression, the gun will be aimed. The only two reasons I will shoot is if like the video, the bear launches out of no where in very close quarters and the distance and timing is such that I feel warrants the shot being taken because a delay means I am dinner or those with me. The second being a bear that is showing aggression to the point of being a clear and present danger to myself or those with me and that all attempts to dissuade the animal have failed. I have run into a number of bears, and I have no interest in killing one just to kill one. Am I an expert on them? No. Am I around them all the time? No. Do I feel that there going from "Not a threat" to "showing aggression" warrants killing? No. Do I feel that the thin red line of "imminent danger" for everyone is different depending on experience with bears and confidences in being right it is only a bluff? Yes, 100%, Yes. Do I feel there are some people that should not be out there to begin with? Absolutely. Look at the "Grizzly Man", over confidence in reading a wild unpredictable animal not only cost him his life, but the life of his girlfriend. Because of that, legally, if caught, the animal MUST BE DISPATCHED because a man was over confident and took chances. Was that bear caught? I don't know and honestly I hope it wasn't. I also hope it doesn't kill again. Are guns guys a problem for bears, ask the bear. Are trigger happy gun guys who just want to pop a cap in a bears back side a problem? Absolutely. Are ignorant people who illegally feeding bears in public areas a problem? YES! Once again, once purposely feed by a human, legally a bear must be dispatched. I don't agree with the law, but it is the law.

That said, I don't like bears, i don't trust them, and I do my very best to stay out of their way and keep distance to a maximum.


Ardent said:
Frankly, I'm a bit embarrassed of much of the way this thread is headed now, and I should have foreseen it coming. The "Shoot first ask questions later" mentality is in my opinion, a mark of cowardice, not savvy, and is creeping north as people come up looking for jobs and end up in the bush.

mcpherson284, where was this, odds are a Grizzly by the behaviour I'm presuming, and when was it reported? There will still be a report on it and likely small town news stories, bear attacks where they actually touch you still make the news and often generate public warnings. I don't doubt you as a person, but I also can't talk to a person as we sit here, and I don't trust the internet. You will likely provide the whole case and prove the account credible, it is an extreme account, especially without injury which is surprising.

I was huffed at just two days ago by a pissed off Black that actually circled the bush around me. I finally saw it after hearing much huffing as I backed out back towards my machine, it crossed the access where it is shown there exposing itself. I had tried chasing him off with a helicopter prior to landing and he didn't enjoy that, and was agitated enough to return to his green patch and attempt to take it back. Normal bear behaviour, and no reason for him to die it happens several times a summer, we have extreme numbers of bears in this area. He was about 30 yards away at his closest. He had me on guard, but no more so than driving an icy highway- this is normal life working in the bush in bear populated areas.

The pic below was last fall, a very unhappy Grizzly, that's a cell phone pic it was close. One quick bluff, and then it left. Again, bear fine, I'm fine. In that entire area there are four Grizzlies, in a range of about a hundred square kilometres. One getting shot because somebody didn't understand bear behaviour and figured "Better safe than sorry" would be a tragedy, not a commendable tale. The Grizzlies are also encountered often, as well, they're brave. I'm likely off the the Muskwa again hunting Grizzly soon, and have no qualms about taking a bear in season with a tag. Destroying bears, especially in areas with lower populations like where much of the Grizzly incidents occur down south is an embarrassment. Worst part is, most go unreported, and end up as vague tales.

Spray really doesn't work well from what I've seen, in my opinion. Guns work well if you're adept in shot placement, but shouldn't be employed nearly as much as they are, again in my opinion. Seems many here seem to think they should be used like spray, just instead of it. A fellow I work with, his father shot a Grizzly in "defence", hearing the story many times, all the happened was he bumped into a sow with cubs on a trail and the sow stood her ground and became agitated. He could have backed out, but figured better safe than sorry. In that area, there are almost no Grizzlies left. This will happen in more places as people who come from areas with less bears move into more bear populated regions, and completely mishandle bear encounters due to a frontier mentality. I just hope the mentality stays away from the bears, it is an embarrassment and really does make us look like a bunch of trigger happy yokels. Have I had to shoot problem bears? Yes, but it was a well thought out decision with CO approval or a tag on a routine problem bear, I've never shot one on a charge or because it "creeped me out".

This thread is about to go downhill fast, the inevitable way of all "Bear Defence" threads… :) I think I'm out from here on.


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I've been stalked by a black bear displaying predatory behavior (in my judgement), and bluff charged by black bears. I've seen the whole tree slapping, tree biting, jaw popping, huffing thing. I've never shot any of those bears.

If it's my life or the bears, then I may shoot, but only then. I'm not about to shoot, just because a bear goes into any of those threat postures.


I completely agree with Ardent, on this subject...



P.S. If you go into the bush, whether you're a hunter or not, everybody should read James Shelton's books, Bear Attacks: The Deadly Truth & Bear Attacks II: Myth & Reality.
 
Cheers and thanks, you also work in the bush, and spend much of your life there and aren't afraid of it, probably a similar deal I spend more days out here than home. Some of the mentalities involved in these discussions are depressing, but fortunately, those mentalities usually spend the least time around bears. Lucky for the bears.
 
Hoplite Tactical Supplies said:
Better to be safe than sorry ;). Check those expiration dates and stay safe my friend.
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I don't think expiration dates are critical, myself. Relates more to the leak of propellant out of the cans over time. My wife trail rode for 6 months with a friend who was scared ####less of bears. Borrowed her can for a hike I was making, to find it was still wrapped in the cellophane. ;)

Grizz
 
Yukon1911 said:
I was told this as well and I always thought, when you get a large Grizzly charging at you will you see the ears or will your concentration be on the brown stain event in your pants as you try your hardest not to crap yourself?

I got my answer about 6 years ago. My Mother was out on a Moose hunt and was charged by a large Grizzly just after making a moose call. So after she calmed down and I could speak to her about it, was at least 9 months.........I asked her about the ear thing. She told me to forget looking for the ears, and all your going to see is a large wall of fur moving at you faster than you would have thought, all your concentration will be focused on getting the round chambered, aiming and firing!

Her friend that told us about the ear thing, has lots of experience and said that if the ears are up, they usually stop about 30 yards or so then intimidate get bored and move on, or they can put them back and resume the charge. Said he has been charged like 20 times over the years while doing wildlife photography.

So, I won't be looking at the ears, only how close they get, if they are moving quickly like flat out, I start shooting at 100 yards.... no warning shots!
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yes you re right if a bear is coming to you, you dont have the time to check the ears or maybe after all when the video will be out .... if you look the last Ardent picture you ll see the body attitude .... and this is not a huge one but i dont know the area...

now the problem we can say and that Ardent touched is the guys using not a DLP but a legal tag to resolve a problem from a bear that was not a problem bear.
 
Macpherson, sorry that you had a negative experience, maybe I've been lucky.
In NB I had a big black bear boar run right up to me(about 10 yards) on a trail before he saw me, and I met a Grizz on a trail in K country when I was bow hunting. Both times got my heart racing, but I did'nt feel threatened either time. With the Black bear, I was hiding in a blind on the side of the trail near some old homesteads with apple trees. He was heading out for the evening, with a destination in mind and I was in the way. When I saw him coming, I stood up and shouldered my .308. He stopped and half stood up(which almost emptied my bowel), but I could see he was just wondering what I was. He snorted, turned and ran back the way he came.
I met the Grizz when I was walking out of K country after a day bowhunting. I was maybe 50 yards down the trail, but the trail was shoulder wide and through tall brush. He stopped and looked at me long enough for me to drop my pack and rip the mossberg off it.
He just turned and crashed off into the brush. Not a real close encounter, but when it's almost dark and you"re on your own, it makes you hold that shotgun pretty tight.
I don't want to shoot a bear, have no interest in them. I've seen several big bears jump up out of the brush and run off like a jackrabbit. I like to have my mossberg with me when I bowhunt, esp for packing game out, but I have never felt the need to shoot a bear just because I saw one.
If my wife, baby and 2 yr old was with me, my reaction would be different but I don't take them into K country.
There are so many people in the bush al through the year, attacks are very rare. You have way more chance of being killed by a drunk/distracted driver on your way to the bush than being attacked by a bear. Maybe we should be allowed to shoot dangerous drivers in self defence.
 
d4dave1 said:
This viewpoint might be entirely without merit but I still consider it and it rambles around in the back of my mind whenever I read bear spray discussions.

I sometimes wonder if the bear spray proponents are the "well established throughout our system" anti-gun people who use massaged research to support the bear spray theory to attempt to negate people walking around with those terrible man killing machines on their shoulders or hips????

It would be interesting to see what people carry in the state of Alaska where they are allowed to carry everything up to and including a 50 caliber Barret...lol...and thay have plenty of bears to bump into by accident up there.

I have read Dr Herrerro's books and statements and it has been stated that he supports bear spray but I would like to hear that come right from his own mouth and his reasons why.

One thing I do feel strongly is that it doesn't matter what you use....if you can't deploy it in less than 10 seconds you may as well not have anything.
Regards,
Dave.​
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Most ive met up with in Alaska carry both. Mainly the sidearm though. Tough to say the exact reason why though... They can carry and they do always so...
It would be a great thing in any bear country to legally carry a large calibre sidearm but the 12 gauge with slugs seems pretty Canadian and thats what I and most I meet do.
 
Demonical said:
I've been stalked by a black bear displaying predatory behavior (in my judgement), and bluff charged by black bears. I've seen the whole tree slapping, tree biting, jaw popping, huffing thing. I've never shot any of those bears.

If it's my life or the bears, then I may shoot, but only then. I'm not about to shoot, just because a bear goes into any of those threat postures.


I completely agree with Ardent, on this subject...



P.S. If you go into the bush, whether you're a hunter or not, everybody should read James Shelton's books, Bear Attacks: The Deadly Truth & Bear Attacks II: Myth & Reality.
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If you read Shelton's book, you realize there is no cut and dried answer, either on an attack scenario or if bear spray will work. After the hoax attack at Calling Lake, some "Bear expert" was on the media re-telling the old saw about rolling up in a ball and protecting your vitals. If the attack had been real and the bear was making a predatory attack like the one in Ft. Mac, game over.

Grizz
 
Nothing for you to be sorry about, like I said. It was my mistake to begin with, rather than being on the house side of a small lake on my parents property so I could have a clear view of the tree line, without thinking about it, I went to the back side of the lake facing the house with my back to the tree line. I had recently seen bears in the area and knew there was a Sow with cubs as well. Still I made the mistake of being careless. And yes, you are right, attacks are very rare. But that said, having something along for Just In Case is the smart thing. Just like a Fire Extinguisher, no one plans on a house fire, and the chances of one happening are slim....

As for dealing with the bipedal kind of problems... A good friend of mine gave me a good one years ago, and I stand by it.
The Baffin Island Polar Bear Petting Club. Problem murderers? Gangbangers that have more law enforcement pick ups than Las Vages prostitute? Pedofiles? Send the to the Polar Bear Petting Club... Go ahead, scratch him under the chin, he likes it... Trust me!

migrant hunter said:
Macpherson, sorry that you had a negative experience, maybe I've been lucky.
In NB I had a big black bear boar run right up to me(about 10 yards) on a trail before he saw me, and I met a Grizz on a trail in K country when I was bow hunting. Both times got my heart racing, but I did'nt feel threatened either time. With the Black bear, I was hiding in a blind on the side of the trail near some old homesteads with apple trees. He was heading out for the evening, with a destination in mind and I was in the way. When I saw him coming, I stood up and shouldered my .308. He stopped and half stood up(which almost emptied my bowel), but I could see he was just wondering what I was. He snorted, turned and ran back the way he came.
I met the Grizz when I was walking out of K country after a day bowhunting. I was maybe 50 yards down the trail, but the trail was shoulder wide and through tall brush. He stopped and looked at me long enough for me to drop my pack and rip the mossberg off it.
He just turned and crashed off into the brush. Not a real close encounter, but when it's almost dark and you"re on your own, it makes you hold that shotgun pretty tight.
I don't want to shoot a bear, have no interest in them. I've seen several big bears jump up out of the brush and run off like a jackrabbit. I like to have my mossberg with me when I bowhunt, esp for packing game out, but I have never felt the need to shoot a bear just because I saw one.
If my wife, baby and 2 yr old was with me, my reaction would be different but I don't take them into K country.
There are so many people in the bush al through the year, attacks are very rare. You have way more chance of being killed by a drunk/distracted driver on your way to the bush than being attacked by a bear. Maybe we should be allowed to shoot dangerous drivers in self defence.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...r-jumps-man-bites-into-pepper-spray-1.2653704

Could never have used a gun, even if he had one.

Ardent is absolutely correct in his assessment of the level of inexperience, ignorance, and fear that most posters on this thread exhibit. Guns may be a "final solution" to a predatory encounter, but all the studies show they are even further from a "certain solution" than a can of spray (which is not a certain solution either). At least a spray will not kill bears just because the owner is terrified of the "big bad bear" in the woods, and shoots when it is absolutely unnecessary.
 
There are a lot more problematic bear encounters than can be gleaned from an experts books as so many go unreported and to call into question the truthfulness of someone who has had an encounter speaks of some superiority complex , someone who is above it all and equal to the task of calling others bull####ters . Another bogus shark show on NatGeo within the last few months pointing out that only about 12 people worldwide are killed every year . Hmmm ... who does the reporting and who collects the data and do they have a 'save everything' agenda ? Nobody does much reporting or collects data around coastal India , Indonesia or the Phillipines , we're talking thousands of remote islands where possibly thousands of people succumb to shark attacks every year . I've had a few close calls with black bears who have very different behaviors than grizz . I owned a bear hunting/outfitting service for 12 year . I know of geologists , biologists , berry pickers , trappers and so on who have had close calls with some resulting in a bear getting shot . As for documentation , nobody but nobody here would report it . The law says , you report it and the CO decides if you'll be charged , how badly you'll be charged and how many charges and judging by what happens to moose hunters who mistake a large calf from a small cow , you're fvcked 3 ways from Sunday . The bear density in this area is extremely high so the chance of an encounter is good . I spend my time in areas 13 and 15B , Thunder Bay . On Friday my son and I saw 5 and on Saturday saw 4 and harvested one , in a cut , not over bait . I once stepped out of my truck to shoot a few partridge with a .22 magnum and an un noticed bear charged from the brush and swept my legs out , dropping me . The bear ran about 15 yards and spun around to make another run back and I shot it in the eye and killed it going for a head shot or any shot . 150 pound black bear and I sure as hell wasn't about to document it with a CO . So we have the fraudster Ceasar Millan , The Dog Whisperer , watch the youtube out takes of him being shredded by dogs , blood everywhere in the emerg department but we have guys on here that should have their own tv shows because they can read bears minds . One even claims to have been within 3 yards of a bear displaying aggressive behavior while his 3 year old daughter was right there , 3 yards away but because he is a bear whisperer he could read the bears mind and at 3 yards chose not to protect his daughter , because he knew what the bear was thinking and exactly how the bear would act . Not with my 3 year old daughter , that would have been a dead bear . I've likely shot 40 to 50 bears myself with clients shooting another 400 and many very close so I have some experience with this . Close calls are rare but they do happen and the difference between contact and a bluff charge can be half a second and if you can read a bears mind in half a second , you should have your own tv show . I had one other very close one where I shot a bear with a Ruger .357 mag . Of the 40 to 50 that I have personally killed , half have been with a 12 gauge with Brenneke slugs from 10 to 75 yards without a single failure . That's hunted and in a defensive situation a 12 gauge with Brenneke slugs is great bear medicine and with many of my clients , that's exactly what they use very effectively . All black bears , 200 to 500 pounds . As for bear gas , I've gassed one bear , a 200 pound black in a landfill , straight in the face at about 4 yards from the window of the truck just to see if it worked . It did , it would have bought me time had it been a defensive situation and I carry it but with little confidence so if I feel the need , it's Brenneke slugs .
 
The way you described the encounter, I would say that was a very naughty bear. He had you on the menu for lunch. It sounded like that bear was acting in a predatory stalking manner. Bears usually run like stink when they encounter a human, I say usually. Yes they will sometime engage in bluff charges and other activity, but the bear that approaches you in a slow deliberate manner is up to no good.
 
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Ardent said:
Frankly, I'm a bit embarrassed of much of the way this thread is headed now, and I should have foreseen it coming. The "Shoot first ask questions later" mentality is in my opinion, a mark of cowardice, not savvy, and is creeping north as people come up looking for jobs and end up in the bush.

mcpherson284, where was this, odds are a Grizzly by the behaviour I'm presuming, and when was it reported? There will still be a report on it and likely small town news stories, bear attacks where they actually touch you still make the news and often generate public warnings. I don't doubt you as a person, but I also can't talk to a person as we sit here, and I don't trust the internet. You will likely provide the whole case and prove the account credible, it is an extreme account, especially without injury which is surprising.

I was huffed at just two days ago by a pissed off Black that actually circled the bush around me. I finally saw it after hearing much huffing as I backed out back towards my machine, it crossed the access where it is shown there exposing itself. I had tried chasing him off with a helicopter prior to landing and he didn't enjoy that, and was agitated enough to return to his green patch and attempt to take it back. Normal bear behaviour, and no reason for him to die it happens several times a summer, we have extreme numbers of bears in this area. He was about 30 yards away at his closest. He had me on guard, but no more so than driving an icy highway- this is normal life working in the bush in bear populated areas.

The pic below was last fall, a very unhappy Grizzly, that's a cell phone pic it was close. One quick bluff, and then it left. Again, bear fine, I'm fine. In that entire area there are four Grizzlies, in a range of about a hundred square kilometres. One getting shot because somebody didn't understand bear behaviour and figured "Better safe than sorry" would be a tragedy, not a commendable tale. The Grizzlies are also encountered often, as well, they're brave. I'm likely off the the Muskwa again hunting Grizzly soon, and have no qualms about taking a bear in season with a tag. Destroying bears, especially in areas with lower populations like where much of the Grizzly incidents occur down south is an embarrassment. Worst part is, most go unreported, and end up as vague tales.

Spray really doesn't work well from what I've seen, in my opinion. Guns work well if you're adept in shot placement, but shouldn't be employed nearly as much as they are, again in my opinion. Seems many here seem to think they should be used like spray, just instead of it. A fellow I work with, his father shot a Grizzly in "defence", hearing the story many times, all the happened was he bumped into a sow with cubs on a trail and the sow stood her ground and became agitated. He could have backed out, but figured better safe than sorry. In that area, there are almost no Grizzlies left. This will happen in more places as people who come from areas with less bears move into more bear populated regions, and completely mishandle bear encounters due to a frontier mentality. I just hope the mentality stays away from the bears, it is an embarrassment and really does make us look like a bunch of trigger happy yokels. Have I had to shoot problem bears? Yes, but it was a well thought out decision with CO approval or a tag on a routine problem bear, I've never shot one on a charge or because it "creeped me out".

This thread is about to go downhill fast, the inevitable way of all "Bear Defence" threads… :) I think I'm out from here on.


Click to expand...

Ardent,

I do believe to many people shoot first and ask questions later, but to call them "cowards or not savvy", cmon give your head a shake. You believe because you spend a lot of time in the bush your a bear behaviour expert? So did the "grizzly man" and look where that got him. Every situation is a little different and has to be reacted to as so.

Myself I prefer to carry a shotgun and anytime I encounter a bear I give it as much room as possible to avoid a unnecessary encounter, but as soon as I feel a bear is acting in a aggressive manner it has just earned a warning shot, which 99% time is enough, but there's always that 1%. My old man and his buddy ran a guide outfit on Vancouver island for bear/cougar while I grew up and spent a good portion of my youth being the mule on many of those outings. My personal expirence has allowed me to somewhat predict the animals behaviour but by no means am I an expert.

I've been an avid fisherman for years and have encountered my fair share of blackies on the river and have only ever had to fire one warning shot that did its job. It also has tons to do with how much human contact a bear has that will determine its reaction and behaviour, so the behaviour/reaction can be very different from one to another and each scenario is different food, cubs etc etc.

So here's my better safe than sorry scenario,

One morning on a beautiful spring morning my wife and I were enjoying a good cup of java, as the wife went back inside for a top up she noticed a whole bunch of our chickens running around the front yard, and without a second thought went out to catch them and return them to the run. She had successfully captured a few and upon returning them turned around to continue catching the last few, there stood two black bears no further than 15yrds with drool and feathers hanging from there mouths, without a second thought she jumped into the chicken coop and locked the door, as she turned around to see most of the chickens had also returned to the coop seeking saftey. It was at this point she realized she was in a bad situation.

After a few minutes I was starting to wonder what was taking so long, so I went inside to see. I glanced out the kitchen window and was surprised by what I seen, a black bear standing on its hind legs sniffing the front door of the coop and another one circling the coop. I called my wife and told she would never believe what I was seeing, I was answered by silence so I called again, still no answer. I opened the front door to try and scare off the bears and that's when I got my answer. My wife was stuck in the chicken coop with two hungry black bears trying to find there way in.

I ran back inside, peeled the safe open and grabbed my old trusty 870 and a handful of slugs, as I came off the front porch the bears turned there attention to me. I let a warning shot go and to my surprise one of the bears proceeded to advance towards me, as I piped another shell the bear picked up momentum, no questions asked the second shot hit him in the head and he did a face grind into the dirt. I threw 2 more shells into the 870 and I started advancing on the second bear, it turned tail and made for the hills.

Conclusion: two bear in the same scenario, two totally different reaction.

This is the Internet and stories do get stretched, take it or leave it. Just wanted to let you know your horse is not taller or mightier than anyone else's. don't be so fast to judge until your put in their shoes.

ET
IMG_9389_zps81ef8337.jpg
 
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