Bedding my Savage MKII BTVS
- Thread starter RabidM4U5
- Start date
thenerdboy
Regular
- Location
- NB, Canada
No issues receiving my kit in the mail. The owner/operator is a member of RimfireCentral and sells the kits there. Better option than cutting the factory spring (IMO) and the kit comes with more than just a new spring.
What are you guys using to clean? I had used Ballistol and Ed's Red. Also, my issues were mainly with the CCI subsonic. I spun a mop with stropping compound on it in the chamber for a bit. I tried with a few different cases I had on had, and it seems OK, but I will have to go and try it.
blackradon171
CGN Regular
- Location
- Edmonton, AB
Awesome! I was just over there looking at that thread. I'll message him tonight and get one ordered!
Papaclaude- I just use this product called wipeout. It's seems to do the trick pretty well and it's super easy! The just run a few patches then a boresnake. I haven't used the brush yet in my savage.
Some PRE-bedding groups. Here I attempted the 50-Yard 1/2" challenge in December on a nice day just above freezing. I am really thinking the cold starts to play havoc on groupings as my testing yesterday was done on a rather cold day also noting in my December range session the previously consistent performance of several ammos had changed. That was the first time I'd shot it in cold conditions. Also a 10-shot group done in the summer. Evidently the rifle and myself are capable of shooting under 1/2" so I am surprised my best group yesterday was above 0.6" after all the ammo I tried. I see they make Biathlon ammo for cold weather performance so there must be something to this train of thought and noting in SavageCanuks recent thread about the Annie 64 he recently picked up he stated he kept his ammo warm in a cooler during his shooting session.
thenerdboy
Regular
- Location
- NB, Canada
Those groups are about what I would expect from a Boyd's model (I figure they ought to shoot a bit better than the synthetic models). I've read different places that a thicker bottom plate and playing with your torque values helps with the Boyd's stocks. I've never shot a .3XX" with my FV but have shot a 0.42" twice, once at 50yds and once at 50m, both with Eley ammunition. I was shooting groups pretty regularly for a while (trying to complete the 1/2" challenge) and unfortunately I'm not sure my rifle is up to it. I found a really lengthy study on accurizing one of the Boyd's models yesterday and ultimately, the owner decided that after two years of tinkering the Mark II could never match the performance of a CZ. It's worth a read - he talks about bedding, trigger modifications, barrel tuning etc.
http://www.portercalls.com/savage_mark_ii_btvlss__22lr.htm
There is a Mark II in the thread that completed the challenge but he paced out the 50 yards and you can see from the photo that the target is a fair bit closer than 50, IMHO. Another guy came really, really close with a Mark II and SK Standard so it's probably not impossible but I have relegated the Mark II to plinking status, for now. *edit* There are a couple more entries from Savages that I forgot about - must be some of the really good ones!
http://www.portercalls.com/savage_mark_ii_btvlss__22lr.htm
There is a Mark II in the thread that completed the challenge but he paced out the 50 yards and you can see from the photo that the target is a fair bit closer than 50, IMHO. Another guy came really, really close with a Mark II and SK Standard so it's probably not impossible but I have relegated the Mark II to plinking status, for now. *edit* There are a couple more entries from Savages that I forgot about - must be some of the really good ones!
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Yeah I read that guys blog, his buddy there also had a savage but his shot well. Seems like it's a roll of the dice with Savages if you'll get a shooter. So I did some extensive ammo testing today I'll list the results in order of poorest to best. Shot a few groups to start with RWS club starting at 10 in/lbs torque, 12.5 in/lbs and settled on 15 in/lbs on the action screws for the rest of testing, these groups were not measured the 3 groups of RWS club were shot at 15 in/lbs.
RWS Clu
1.491", 1.075", 0.753"
Federal Auto Match: 1.349"
CCI Mini Mag 'Choot "Em!: 1.111"
Sellior & Bellot: 0.960
RWS Target Pistol: 0.884"
SK Std. +: 0.868"
RWS Target Rifle: 0.778"
Aguila Subsonic: 0.761"
RWS Pistol Match: 0.737"
Fiocchi 300: 0.681"
CCI Std. Vel: 0.606"
Remington/Eley Clu 0.585"
Aguila Std. Vel.: 0.58"
SK Rifle Match: 0.558"
Lapua Center-X: 0.477" (0.602", 0.536", 0.531", 0.426" and 0.408" challenge attempt, 0.423" warmup group)
Remington/Eley Target: 0.382"
Got a 0.888" group with my Remington 597 here with SK standard +! Bottom right, pretty cool considering the 4" vertical string it shot with Federal Auto Match, yikes!
And a 50 Yard challenge attempt with Center-X
I may play around with torque settings and center-x next time out she is close to beating the challenge!
RWS Clu
1.491", 1.075", 0.753"Federal Auto Match: 1.349"
CCI Mini Mag 'Choot "Em!: 1.111"
Sellior & Bellot: 0.960
RWS Target Pistol: 0.884"
SK Std. +: 0.868"
RWS Target Rifle: 0.778"
Aguila Subsonic: 0.761"
RWS Pistol Match: 0.737"
Fiocchi 300: 0.681"
CCI Std. Vel: 0.606"
Remington/Eley Clu
0.585"Aguila Std. Vel.: 0.58"
SK Rifle Match: 0.558"
Lapua Center-X: 0.477" (0.602", 0.536", 0.531", 0.426" and 0.408" challenge attempt, 0.423" warmup group)
Remington/Eley Target: 0.382"
Got a 0.888" group with my Remington 597 here with SK standard +! Bottom right, pretty cool considering the 4" vertical string it shot with Federal Auto Match, yikes!
And a 50 Yard challenge attempt with Center-X
I may play around with torque settings and center-x next time out she is close to beating the challenge!
elimsprint
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kelowna, BC
Keep your ammo warm if it is cold out. I was shocked at how much cold ammo affects groups and velocities. Most ammo I tested was about 2.5-4" low and double or worse on group size when it was cold.
thenerdboy
Regular
- Location
- NB, Canada
Those groups are looking much better! You got really close on your attempt with the Lapua stuff.
Just a quick comment: in my experience, only shooting one group with a particular brand of ammo doesn't really tell you anything. Reason being there is still lube leftover from the last group of rounds in your bore and it will make the next brand look better/worse depending on the quality, unless you clean between brands. Then again, if you were to clean between brands, you might have to shoot a whole box to get the groups to settle in. Typically 40+ rounds for my rifle to bring the groups back down - needs to be fouled. Example: I shot two groups of that Aguila Subsonic stuff last week and like you, my first group was 0.75" BUT my second was 0.46", so I wouldn't write that one off just yet. My testing has shown a third and fourth group would probably be as-good or better. Right after the Aguila, I shot some Winchester 333 for fun and the first group had 4 shots practically touching with one "flyer" (haha). This might be why your Aguila S.V. performance was so much better than the subsonic; what did you shoot right before the Aguila Standard? My testing with it over 4 groups had an average size greater than Winchester bulk ammo.
Anyway, glad to see you're making progress. I'm no expert by any means - I've just been at this challenge with my Savage for a while. Keep shooting!
Just a quick comment: in my experience, only shooting one group with a particular brand of ammo doesn't really tell you anything. Reason being there is still lube leftover from the last group of rounds in your bore and it will make the next brand look better/worse depending on the quality, unless you clean between brands. Then again, if you were to clean between brands, you might have to shoot a whole box to get the groups to settle in. Typically 40+ rounds for my rifle to bring the groups back down - needs to be fouled. Example: I shot two groups of that Aguila Subsonic stuff last week and like you, my first group was 0.75" BUT my second was 0.46", so I wouldn't write that one off just yet. My testing has shown a third and fourth group would probably be as-good or better. Right after the Aguila, I shot some Winchester 333 for fun and the first group had 4 shots practically touching with one "flyer" (haha). This might be why your Aguila S.V. performance was so much better than the subsonic; what did you shoot right before the Aguila Standard? My testing with it over 4 groups had an average size greater than Winchester bulk ammo.
Anyway, glad to see you're making progress. I'm no expert by any means - I've just been at this challenge with my Savage for a while. Keep shooting!
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elimsprint
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kelowna, BC
+1 for thenerdboy's comments. When testing ammo I usually shoot 25 rounds to foul and acclimatize the barrel to that ammo and 25 for the test. I run a boresnake through after each test but no cleaner.
Yeah the top two groups on my attempt were looking sweet until they each had one fart down on them! I think a few more attempts with center-x and I'll nail it. Rem/Eley target has potential as well.
I realize single groups aren't a tell all but I can glean some insight from them. They are either a best group, worst or something in the middle. So yes some of those brands + - the 0.75" mark could settle down and be shooters. The ones closer to 0.5" warrant further testing for sure. A lot of ammo to try and not enough time to try it all so thoroughly! I also got out to 100 yards with my .270. Last year I could switch between thunderbolts, CCI std Vel, blazer and RWS Club group to group and RWS always shot well when I came to it so I think a good ammo will perform noticeably well regardless of whats been down the tube before it, and then it can only get better with some "seasoning".
Groups were shot as shown in the pics starting with RWS club shooting left box, right box moving down to next row and repeat. The rem/eley was shot before the aguila.
I'll confess I ordered myself a CZ 455 Canadian
so I also wanted to save enough ammo to test with it and do a challenge attempt if something looks good. I hemmed and hawed for awhile, drooled over some fine anschutz rifles but couldn't justify one to myself. I just don't have a suitable range or hunting opportunities to make use of one. I'd so be into silhouette if one of the ranges around me held it! Alas I kept coming back to the CZ and went mmmhmm, she's nice!
I realize single groups aren't a tell all but I can glean some insight from them. They are either a best group, worst or something in the middle. So yes some of those brands + - the 0.75" mark could settle down and be shooters. The ones closer to 0.5" warrant further testing for sure. A lot of ammo to try and not enough time to try it all so thoroughly! I also got out to 100 yards with my .270. Last year I could switch between thunderbolts, CCI std Vel, blazer and RWS Club group to group and RWS always shot well when I came to it so I think a good ammo will perform noticeably well regardless of whats been down the tube before it, and then it can only get better with some "seasoning".
Groups were shot as shown in the pics starting with RWS club shooting left box, right box moving down to next row and repeat. The rem/eley was shot before the aguila.
I'll confess I ordered myself a CZ 455 Canadian
so I also wanted to save enough ammo to test with it and do a challenge attempt if something looks good. I hemmed and hawed for awhile, drooled over some fine anschutz rifles but couldn't justify one to myself. I just don't have a suitable range or hunting opportunities to make use of one. I'd so be into silhouette if one of the ranges around me held it! Alas I kept coming back to the CZ and went mmmhmm, she's nice!thenerdboy
Regular
- Location
- NB, Canada
Grats on the purchase! Don't give up on the Mark II though; I feel like we're in this together! Haha
The Savage is now 1/2" challenge certified! Interestingly today it preferred SK Rifle Match and I shot a personal best group 0.269" and also nearly did the challenge with SK std +. The Eley posted some nice groups but was prone to bad fliers. Another near success with Center-x as well. Definitely shooting better the warmer it gets outside. I must say I'm rather disappointed with the CZ accuracy wise it can't touch the Savage. Best group 0.823" worst 2.525" most in the 1 - 1.5" range. It looks good, feels good and trigger is nice after putting in the YoDave kit but I am not seeing accuracy potential with it
SK Std +
Good run with center-x but first group failed challenge
Eley shot well but fliers
CZ Making me sad
SK Std +
Good run with center-x but first group failed challenge
Eley shot well but fliers
CZ Making me sad
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thenerdboy
Regular
- Location
- NB, Canada
Yay! That's great to hear. I need to get my hands on some of the SK stuff but no one sells it around here. Since a Boyd's stock is out of reach for me right now, I've opted to try pillars in the synthetic stock. Will try to post some results when I get it done; I figure it can't really hurt anything.
Were you shooting off the mechanical rest before with rear bag or just front bipod? I've always been curious about the potential improvement in groups using one of those rests.
Were you shooting off the mechanical rest before with rear bag or just front bipod? I've always been curious about the potential improvement in groups using one of those rests.
I ordered my SK from hirsch precision, none of the retailers near me have "the good stuff" either. I've never used a bipod. The rock rest is recent was using sand bags before. Either option gets you nice and steady but I often had to put a cut piece of 2x4 under the sandbag to get proper height which is no longer an issue with the adjustable rest. I also removed all the sling studs from my savage as they got in the way using the bags. Now if my range would just fix those wobbly benches...
Got a new ammo shipment in so was trying it out in all my rifles. Did the SK Magazine experiment with sorting, best results out of the Savage. SK Mag seems to be decent stuff.
Overall good performance from the old lot of SK+
A little better average and performance from the new lot of SK+. I do believe this rifle shoots best fouled from a few boxes and no cleaning allowed for hundreds of rounds!
Gave me a good baseline to judge my CZ and Weatherby against the performance of the Savage I seem to be fighting a battle with them a little beyond just what ammo they like.
Overall good performance from the old lot of SK+
A little better average and performance from the new lot of SK+. I do believe this rifle shoots best fouled from a few boxes and no cleaning allowed for hundreds of rounds!
Gave me a good baseline to judge my CZ and Weatherby against the performance of the Savage I seem to be fighting a battle with them a little beyond just what ammo they like.
Rabid I am having similar results with the newer packaged boxes of SK std plus with the new lable.I had 2 different lots of the older stuff from last year and both always had considerable flyers.In fact it wasn't until I got some of the new sk std that I was able to complete the challange with my CZ455 varmint.TEG another fellow I shoot with had the same results in both his CZs way too many flyers with the older SK std and rifle match.Unfortunatly I still have about 4 bricks of old std plus and rifle match.
Had a nice range day today and dedicated some time to the ol' savage. A breath of fresh air to shoot a gun that is performing well, much needed after my battles with the CZ and Weatherby. Bore Scope inspection revealed a carbon ring of fouling in the chamber so I gave it a good cleaning with jb bore paste. Considering this target was shot out of such a thoroughly cleaned barrel it dun did quite well! I did not adjust the scope at all so you can see it still "settling" over the course of the target. It beats my last two targets prior to cleaning with SK ammo, hogwash to those that say never clean a rimfire!
Typical Center-x Performance from this rifle, 0.4"-0.6" but it did surprise me at the end with it's best ever group in the 0.1"s!
I decided to treat it to some Midas + and X-Act since it was doing well today
Here is a $20 target :O
I'd say I've got this rifle dialed in, 1/2" all day with good ammo. I was smilin' every time the last round hit the final target of a card. Did not clean at all during the shooting I think it does take some rounds to fully settle in so will revisit SK ammo another day.
Typical Center-x Performance from this rifle, 0.4"-0.6" but it did surprise me at the end with it's best ever group in the 0.1"s!
I decided to treat it to some Midas + and X-Act since it was doing well today
Here is a $20 target :O
I'd say I've got this rifle dialed in, 1/2" all day with good ammo. I was smilin' every time the last round hit the final target of a card. Did not clean at all during the shooting I think it does take some rounds to fully settle in so will revisit SK ammo another day.
Just going to throw this in here for anyone doing trigger jobs on their mark 2, I've done this mod to my mark 2 and to my 93r17 and works great plus I didn't lose the ability to turn it back up to heavy settings. Only thing I added to the mod was like appachie adds the ball to the seat spring to make up for the reduced pressure from the angle change the short trigger spring caused, I also added a spacer there the exact thickness as what I removed from the trigger, this way my sear retains the factory safety margin the trigger came with. Best part about this mod was it was free to do both guns, only took like 10min.
https://www.msgo.com/threads/how-to-do-a-trigger-job-on-a-savage-mk-ii-accu-trigger.42031/
https://www.msgo.com/threads/how-to-do-a-trigger-job-on-a-savage-mk-ii-accu-trigger.42031/
