Being in the stand before first light

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I hunted in Ontario for 40 years; on perhaps a half-dozen occasions I had animals "driven to the shooter". Do you seriously believe that all...or even most...hunting in the province is done in this fashion?

Ontario is also sorely lacking in grizzlies and cougars, so being too frightened to leave the truck before dawn is less common there.
 
I've done it. Don't really care for it. You are walking through an area that you could be hunting if it was daylight in order to get somewhere else.

It really makes no sense to me for my hunting in my area.
 
I get in my stand early, love watching the sunrise and have been very successful in the morning hours also.
Usually depart at last light, have no problem hunting all day long.
 
On the other hand, I have shot several truck loads of deer over the years, and every one of them has been between 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. I find white tails to be very active in the middle of the day.
 
I have yet to hunt from a stand or blind. I've thought about building a blind or getting a tree stand but there is so much ground here that it's really hard to sit in one spot all day long.

If I were to hunt from a stand, I would want to be there at least 20-30 minutes before first light. Of course, I'm not a morning person so what I want and what actually happens isn't always the same thing....
 
That would certainly depend on which province you're talking about.

In Ontario, section 20 of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997, S.O. 1997, c.41, says:

[emphasis mine]

Note here the operative term 'or', such that the firearm is not a necessary requirement of the offence.

Moreover, the definition of "hunting", contained in section 1(1) is broad enough to potentially include sitting in your stand.



Part (d) could be argued as a way out, and is absent in some other jurisdictions, but I wouldn't want to be the one trying to make the argument. I haven't looked to see if the provisions have been judicially considered.

Check the regs yourself, or talk with any CO.
Ontario hunting regulations said:
Before hunting, check local sunrise-sunset times. You may only hunt from half an hour before sunrise to half an hour after sunset (exceptions: night raccoon, spring wild turkey, and, in some WMUs, pheasant). If you are in an area usually inhabited by wildlife, during the period from half an hour after sunset to half an hour before sunrise you must unload and encase any firearms (including air guns, pellet guns, bows or crossbows) in your possession.
To be considered encased, firearms must be enclosed on all six sides.

You can in Ontario be legally in the woods with a firearm, if it's unloaded and encased at night.
 
You have virtually the same regulation in Alberta as I referenced in post #8. I take it has never been a problem?

Section 1.(1)(o) of the Wildlife Act, RSA 2000:



and Section 28:

If I go in to a stand (ground blind) before it's light, I just sit there, I don't start "lying in wait" for the deer until it's legal shooting time.
 
Watching the day wake up, straining my eyes to see game in the pre-dawn, listening as much as looking, are all a big part of hunting for me. I want to be in position, completely ready, at least 30-45 minutes before the beginning of legal shooting light. Yes, I see deer all day long, but the first and last 2 hours of the day are prime.

If I walked out to my stand at first light, I'm sure all my deer would be shot at mid-day like the other late-risers; when else would I see them? :)

But a word of thanks is in order to those guys ambling randomly around at first light; I'm sure some of the deer the rest of us see and shoot are moving because you spooked them up for us. :)

Any time I do that for someone, they are welcome. One less deer for me, but one less hunter going after the deer that are still out there.
 
If I go in to a stand (ground blind) before it's light, I just sit there, I don't start "lying in wai"t for the deer until it's legal shooting time.

Yes, I completely understand that the legally abiding hunter sitting in his stand/blind has no intention of shooting anything before its legal to do so. The law doesn't make that distinction, however. Regardless of what time it is, however, the legal term of "lying in wait" and the act and purpose of being in your stand/blind, concealed and waiting for game to pass by, are exactly the same.
 
There is a small, select cadre of CGN members who seem to revel in the practice of re-interpreting game laws and firearms laws in an effort to teach us that every single solitary thing we do is illegal. Sadly, they are probably correct, in that the ambiguous wording of so much of this stuff allows for many interpretations. If you meet a CO who is dead-set on "getting" you...or, more likely, if you really are an a$$hole who should be gotten...he can almost certainly find a way to bend the meaning of the law to make that possible. So, which came first: the chicken or the egg? Was the law poorly written, and all these multiple interpretations came into existence in the years following its passing...OR...was it worded this way to make it easier for CO's to catch you if you should be caught? :)

I ran into many CO's over the course of my hunting activities in Ontario, many of them before or after legal shooting light, and I can guarantee you that each and every one of them interpreted the law the same way that JYC above is interpreting it, i.e. if the gun is in the case you are good to go.

CV32, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't your take on this law really mean that if I go out to a treestand or a blind with nothing but a camera, I am technically breaking the law? I am "lying in wait" according to the ridiculously broad definition of hunting that you posted. How about taking a walk at dawn, not during hunting season? I do this frequently; if I stop at a spot where I think I might see deer or other wildlife, I am now "lying in wait". Taking it a step further, if CO's follow your reasoning, they can probably ticket every birdwatcher they come across as well, and a lot of rural people taking their dogs for a walk. Where does it end?
 
The OP's title was "Being in the stand before first light" with the inference not being legal but who likes just being out there at first light. A very straight forward simple question until the CGN police get hold of it and turn the whole thread into a legal argument. I swear some of you guys sit there with a copy of the criminal code, and the provincial regulations for each province and territory just waiting to pounce on any issue that you can make legal reference to. If that's your thing maybe some of you should head off to law school.
I have been hunting in Ontario for 51 years and have been checked by game wardens more times than I can remember and never been charged with anything. If before or after legal times as long as the gun is encased in a case or sock, I have also pulled the bolt from my M-70 and zipped it into my inside pocket, when checked the CO's have never given me a concern. Common sense, the most least used of the human senses needs to be resurrected here and put back into use. Just my opinion and view on the matter.
 
There is a small, select cadre of CGN members who seem to revel in the practice of re-interpreting game laws and firearms laws in an effort to teach us that every single solitary thing we do is illegal.

You would be very wrong if you're referring to me. There is no reveling or 're-interpreting' here and no nefarious motive on my part. I am simply pointing out the black letter of the law, and that, being in the stand prior to legal light is likely technically in breach of the law as written (poorly or otherwise).

Sadly, they are probably correct, in that the ambiguous wording of so much of this stuff allows for many interpretations. If you meet a CO who is dead-set on "getting" you...or, more likely, if you really are an a$$hole who should be gotten...he can almost certainly find a way to bend the meaning of the law to make that possible.

This is the further point. You are at the mercy of the CO's mood and interpretation of the law, at least until you are in front of a judge trying to explain. At which point you are then at the mercy of his/her mood and interpretation.

I ran into many CO's over the course of my hunting activities in Ontario, many of them before or after legal shooting light, and I can guarantee you that each and every one of them interpreted the law the same way that JYC above is interpreting it, i.e. if the gun is in the case you are good to go.

Which is great, laudable, sensible and reasonable, until you run into the guy who sees it differently. (And I have seen various flavours of CO.)

CV32, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't your take on this law really mean that if I go out to a treestand or a blind with nothing but a camera, I am technically breaking the law? I am "lying in wait" according to the ridiculously broad definition of hunting that you posted. How about taking a walk at dawn, not during hunting season? I do this frequently; if I stop at a spot where I think I might see deer or other wildlife, I am now "lying in wait". Taking it a step further, if CO's follow your reasoning, they can probably ticket every birdwatcher they come across as well, and a lot of rural people taking their dogs for a walk. Where does it end?

There is case law to address this point. If it isn't hunting season, you don't have a hunting license, you aren't in a tree stand or a ground blind, you don't have any hunting equipment or firearm, bow, etc., and you're walking a dog on a leash, there is a very good chance that both the CO and judge will accept that you aren't hunting. However, if all of the opposite circumstances apply, how should we reasonably expect the CO or judge to assess you?

Facts don't care much about any of our feelings on the matter. If ignorance of the facts better suits a person's sensibilities, then so be it. But it doesn't change those facts one iota, and don't kill the messenger. Are you offended when someone points out the nonsensical technicalities of the Firearms Act?

Since I spend a good deal of my time advocating for hunters, trappers and anglers in this country (and I am all of those things myself), and better wild life conservation and game management, don't misinterpret my pointing out the frailties of the law as a motive for trying to make your life more difficult. Nothing could be further from the truth.
 
CV32, apologies if it sounds like I am painting you with that brush...and in reading back over my post, I see that it does. Your wording throughout this thread is much more cautionary than threatening. I guess I am just too accustomed to some of The Usual Suspects always screaming "You can't do that!"..."That's illegal!"..."You will be charged!!!"

I also regret contributing to this entire thread de-rail. Back to the joys of sunrise! :)
 
CV32, apologies if it sounds like I am painting you with that brush...and in reading back over my post, I see that it does. Your wording throughout this thread is much more cautionary than threatening. I guess I am just too accustomed to some of The Usual Suspects always screaming "You can't do that!"..."That's illegal!"..."You will be charged!!!" I also regret contributing to this entire thread de-rail. Back to the joys of sunrise! :)

Thanks. My intention is indeed purely cautionary, and I enjoy those precious moments during the hunt as much as the next guy. Cheers.
 
I like to walk in in daylight. Almost all our deer are shot between 8-10 am and 3-5 pm.

One guy I hunt with likes to be in the stand well before legal time, so I used to follow his lead.
Many times I have jumped deer in the dark walking in, and I wondered, why don't i wait a bit and jump them when my rifle is ready?
So now I wait until legal time to walk in.

This year (which was a poor year in my area due to rain) we got 5 bucks in rife season: 1 at 5 pm Monday and 4 on Wednesday - 2 at 10 am and 2 at 3 pm
Thursday I had a doe and fawn 30 feet from me for 10 minutes and they had no idea I was there for the first 5-7 minutes.

Personally I dont think it makes any difference when you go out, as long as you go out...you wont get too many from the couch.

That, in spades! ^^^

I have hunted early mornings through late nights, and found that the deer eat a lot during the day.

Being ready on the walk in or out is a really good plan too. Have shot some pretty nice meat does within minutes of leaving my vehicle. Have shot deer at pretty much all hours of the day.

Success will be proportional to effort. More time in the field will equal more deer.

Learning how to move while in the woods, and learning to look around and see what is there, goes a long ways too, but you gotta learn that from experience.

I REALLY love living here in BC. Nobody tries to beat you upside the head with silly rules until AFTER you actually do something wrong. No thought crimes police, treating you like a criminal while you are simply walking to and fro.
 
Yes, I completely understand that the legally abiding hunter sitting in his stand/blind has no intention of shooting anything before its legal to do so. The law doesn't make that distinction, however. Regardless of what time it is, however, the legal term of "lying in wait" and the act and purpose of being in your stand/blind, concealed and waiting for game to pass by, are exactly the same.

So every single CO in Ontario is wrong and your internet interpretation is right? You are simply wrong in your interpretation CV, atleast for Ontario.

I assume you have already confirmed your understanding with your provincial COs or Ministry.
 
So every single CO in Ontario is wrong and your internet interpretation is right? You are simply wrong in your interpretation CV, atleast for Ontario. I assume you have already confirmed your understanding with your provincial COs or Ministry.

Its not a matter of my opinion. That's how the law reads. How it is being applied by individual COs may be a different story, and thankfully so, but that doesn't change the black letter of the law. Don't kill the messenger.

Edit: Let me draw an analogy for you. If the speed limit in a given area is 100 kph, you are perhaps very unlikely to get stopped and ticketed for speeding if you were going 105 kph. Depending on the police officer who stops you, his/her mood and your own response to being stopped, you might not even get ticketed for 110 kph (or even more). But, at the end of day, the speed limit remains 100 kph.
 
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No CO will charge you before or after legal light if you are licenced, possess a tag, are in an open area and on property for which you have permission or is public, when your rifle or bow is encased and unloaded, and you are travelling to or from a stand or blind or hunting area...

If you are sitting in a blind at 2:00 am and have a spotlight set-up, you are on your own.
 
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