Benchrest Competition Videos

[Max Owner]

i dont doubt that, but locking your gun into a vice takes away the biggest skill required for shooting a gun, holding it consistently the same way to achieve the same result. again, not trying to bad mouth br shooting, to me it just seems like you take all the skills the f class guys use and then clamp the gun in and not worry about it moving because of user error.

In your case I didn't mean to come across in such a manner and do appologize.

As for Greg, you never did ask what my circumstances (not sure if this is best way to describe) were for the "event" And still haven't. But you know.

Sorry Rpollock to take away from your thread. What little ego I got left got the better of me.

 

[albertacoyotecaller]

Haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Greg

 

[uchi]

In your case I didn't mean to come across in such a manner and do appologize.

As for Greg, you never did ask what my circumstances (not sure if this is best way to describe) were for the "event" And still haven't. But you know.

Sorry Rpollock to take away from your thread. What little ego I got left got the better of me.

no worries bud takes more to offend me

 

[gun_rat82]

its neat to see the different "table manners" the different shooters use, from free recoil and picking groups to foreward pressure and running. I'm sure everyone could learn a thing about shooting from boyer, ratigan, neary and the rest.

 

[warrenb]

Do the shooters actually focus on all the flags or do they pick a couple when they start a string a stick with those until the string is shot?

I ask because I have enough probs watching one or two flags, focusing on the target and shooting in the same conditions. Mentally collating all those flag positions is a skill in itself I would think.

 

[rpollock]

Warrenb, it is very mentally challenging. At times it seems you are in a short term memory contest AND a wind reading contest! Focused concentration for 7 minutes cannot be undervalued. Not only do you have to remember what condition you are shooting in for the record group, you also need to remember what the conditions were for each shot on your sighter target.

To answer your question, most shooters will have between 3-6 flags in front of their bench, in a line between them and the target, that become the primary focus. You would also watch the flags in front of the neighboring benches to try and detect the arrival of new conditions, or to gauge how long the existing conditions will hang around. You can see this more in the unlimited videos as most will use a heads up shooting style and you can see them looking at all the flags.

You would normally start off by firing a few sighter shots to see what the conditions are doing to the bullet while watching the flags directly in front of your bench. You would then try and identify a condition that will allow you to get all 5 record shots off in the same condition. This doesn't always work out, so it means more sighter shots then back to the record target to finish the group in the new conditions.

Imagine having 4 shots in a dot, with 30 seconds left to form your group, then losing the condition, going to the sighter to dope the new conditions, and then having to aim outside the group for the 5th shot and have the wind push it back into the group. This is a fairly common situation for BR shooters. This is the essence of BR shooting.

While most casual observers of BR focus on the rifle and rests and all the other equipment associated with BR, the equipment can only get you on the playing field. It is up to the shooter to do the rest. No different than any other shooting contest, be it TR, F class, trap, skeet etc.

 

[cycbb486]

Warren

Do the shooters actually focus on all the flags or do they pick a couple when they start a string a stick with those until the string is shot?

I ask because I have enough probs watching one or two flags, focusing on the target and shooting in the same conditions. Mentally collating all those flag positions is a skill in itself I would think.

it all depends on the range. In theory the closest flags are supposed to be the most important. If you talk to some of the top shooters they will tell you that ALL flags matter.

Rick would be able to tell more about the World's in France and shooting what they called the boxed range. In that place there may have been only 1 or 2 flags that were the IMPORTANT ones.

Uchi, if you think we cannot screw up even though our rifles are in a front rest and rear bag you need to actually try it. Trigger control, finger pressure, hand pressure, breathing etc all make a difference.

Just remember you guys who are into run and gun shooting, when you blow a knee out and require surgery lets see you run and gun then. We can hobble to a bench and as long as we have sight in one eye, and 1 good hand we can shoot.......

CYCBB

 

[uchi]

it all depends on the range. In theory the closest flags are supposed to be the most important. If you talk to some of the top shooters they will tell you that ALL flags matter.

Rick would be able to tell more about the World's in France and shooting what they called the boxed range. In that place there may have been only 1 or 2 flags that were the IMPORTANT ones.

Uchi, if you think we cannot screw up even though our rifles are in a front rest and rear bag you need to actually try it. Trigger control, finger pressure, hand pressure, breathing etc all make a difference.

Just remember you guys who are into run and gun shooting, when you blow a knee out and require surgery lets see you run and gun then. We can hobble to a bench and as long as we have sight in one eye, and 1 good hand we can shoot.......

CYCBB

i still agree theres a certain degree of skill required to shoot through a bench, it just not as difficult as shooting without the bench.

i havent done any run and gun stuff myself but i know how it feels to shoot with a broken leg, went to the range yesterday with some buddies while on my crutches. im just glad my leg is healed enough to not feel the recoil of the gun through it

 

[Budweiser360]

i still agree theres a certain degree of skill required to shoot through a bench, it just not as difficult as shooting without the bench.

i havent done any run and gun stuff myself but i know how it feels to shoot with a broken leg, went to the range yesterday with some buddies while on my crutches. im just glad my leg is healed enough to not feel the recoil of the gun through it

That's all relative to the competition in question. When first and second place can be the difference of .001" in group size, the skill required in every aspect of the game comes into play.

This isn't turning into a pissing match, I'm just frustrated at the lack of respect on this forum shown towards top shooters, in any discipline. JMO

 

[uchi]

That's all relative to the competition in question. When first and second place can be the difference of .001" in group size, the skill required in every aspect of the game comes into play.

This isn't turning into a pissing match, I'm just frustrated at the lack of respect on this forum shown towards top shooters, in any discipline. JMO

i dont think too many people cut up the top shooters. as i said im not trying to. im just more im pressed with a guy who can hit a target at 1500 yards using a bi pod than i am at a guy who can put 5 rounds thats a half inch hole off a benchrest. but thats just me.

 

[clatartar]

anybody can be trained to shoot a gong at 1500 yards with most factory rilfes off a bipod and a little common sense... not too many people could shoot aggs in the low 1s with any rifle

 

[uchi]

anybody can be trained to shoot a gong at 1500 yards with most factory rilfes off a bipod and a little common sense... not too many people could shoot aggs in the low 1s with any rifle

see thats where i think youre wrong. both require wind reading, elevation drops, hell if youre shooting over a valley with dips and #### itll throw the wind right off. it takes plenty of skill to hit a 10 inch piece of steel at a mile or more. when that gong is nothing more than a little dot in the reticle. how far do you bench rest guys shoot out to? and is it always at a range or do you guys shoot out in the mountains and canyons as well?

 

[cycbb486]

Uchi it's been mentioned numerous times we shoot 100 and 200. Some shoot matches at 600 and then there is 1000. Here in Canada we shoot out to 200 because there are NO 600 or 1000 ranges that are set up for BR.

Here is a test for you. If you prefer the shooting style you like try this. Take your bipod and shoot prone of off a bench whatever you prefer and shoot a five shot group. Give it an honest effort and let us know how well you did. Heck take what you think is the best rifle that you would buy or build for your self and try it. Try it out to a mile if you so desire.

If you feel your rifle is a .500" shooter, draw a half inch circle and try and put all your shots into that circle doping the wind. The key is to try and shoot smaller than that. Sure as hell someone will be able to do it better. Why? Because they have a load and rifle that is tune and are better at reading the wind.

We prefer it off of benches where you may prefer it the way you like.

You mention shooting valleys and canyons, try shooting at a match at Rosebud. Sun comes out wind may start rushing up the mountain but mirage kicks up. Cloud wind starts rushing down mirage goes away. In theory the better wind to shoot is a right to left, oh but the sun is out and the mirage is hell........

There is WAY more going on than the average person believes.

I feel long range shooting is a crap shoot. You chuck one out there and pray.............

JMO

cycbb486

 

[uchi]

Uchi it's been mentioned numerous times we shoot 100 and 200. Some shoot matches at 600 and then there is 1000. Here in Canada we shoot out to 200 because there are NO 600 or 1000 ranges that are set up for BR.

Here is a test for you. If you prefer the shooting style you like try this. Take your bipod and shoot prone of off a bench whatever you prefer and shoot a five shot group. Give it an honest effort and let us know how well you did. Heck take what you think is the best rifle that you would buy or build for your self and try it. Try it out to a mile if you so desire.

If you feel your rifle is a .500" shooter, draw a half inch circle and try and put all your shots into that circle doping the wind. The key is to try and shoot smaller than that. Sure as hell someone will be able to do it better. Why? Because they have a load and rifle that is tune and are better at reading the wind.

We prefer it off of benches where you may prefer it the way you like.

You mention shooting valleys and canyons, try shooting at a match at Rosebud. Sun comes out wind may start rushing up the mountain but mirage kicks up. Cloud wind starts rushing down mirage goes away. In theory the better wind to shoot is a right to left, oh but the sun is out and the mirage is hell........

There is WAY more going on than the average person believes.

I feel long range shooting is a crap shoot. You chuck one out there and pray.............

JMO

cycbb486

ive shot sub 1 inch at 100 and 1.25 inch at 200 with my r700 off a bag, doesnt happen often as ive shot a total of about 450 rounds through it, about 300 through my shotgun, most being at clays, maybe 50 pistol rounds, and about 200 through my sks and a handful of .22s the other day, thats my shooting experience, the more i shoot the better i get. ive also had days where i shoot 2 inches at 100, depends on how my day is doing and how much caffeine ive had that morning, at the same time unless im mistaken i buried 3 at 200 in under an inch using dgphotographies timberwolf and hand loads. first time shooting it aswell. i dont claim to be good, i shoot because i enjoy shooting. you guys use a bench rest because you wanna be precise and put 3 into one hole, thats great, nothing wrong there. i just personally prefer the added challenge of not clamping my gun to a bench rest.

im not putting down bench rest shooting, you bench rest guys are good in my book, lots of you get defensive about your sport and turn a little nasty with it, ive dealt the same types of people in the car communities. all the skills you mention also transfer over to shooting off a bag and bi pod with the added skill of holding the gun steady.

are you guys required to be on target with the shots or do they just measure the holes wherever they land on paper?

 

[SouthPaw700]

"This message is hidden because uchi is on your ignore list. "

Ahhh that feels better.

 

[uchi]

"This message is hidden because uchi is on your ignore list. "

Ahhh that feels better.

bah, not the first or the last time thats happened. haha, this guy must be one of the bench rest defensive people i mentioned, like the import and domestic guys are car meets, the insecure ones always get the most defensive.

 

[Bolivar]

Uchi

Sorry dude but the BR guys have a right to be defensive with your posts here. You basically said it takes little or no skill to shoot bench rest. Naturally BR enthusiasts are going to kick back a little on that.

I think perhaps you are missing a couple of things. 1) BR shooters do not "clamp" rifles to the rests. They use a heavy front rest and rear bag. The rifle just sits there. This is actually somewhat similar to F-class which is sometimes called Belly Bench Rest. (Actually not intended as a compliment)

2) The degree of accuracy to be really competitive is way more than most LR shooting. F-class uses a 0.5 MOA bull. BR shooters are trying to group inside 0.2 MOA or less.

Anyway, it is kind of sad to see bickering between two disciplines of shooting. Lets all just accept the there are differences between them, they are enjoyed by those the choose to partake in each (or both) and move on.

 

[uchi]

heres the thing though, im not trying to put down bench rest shooters, i think ive made that clear. i stated both lr and br have particular skill sets, most of them are shared between the two styles. i shot my r700 from a bench rest that clamped the front of the gun down while sighting in my scope and i know how much more accurate it was that way. in that case it was the gun shooting more than it was me. i realize this is the thing to do for alot of guys, and thats great, its really not my thing and i just find it odd to see them shooting 100/200y with a bench rest, thats all im trying to say. im in no way trying to put down this aspect of shooting, if it works for you, it works for you, it just doesnt do it for me, almost seems un natural to go this route. but im thinking more along the lines of real world situation where youre making long shots with a bi pod only, military application, police, etc.

i agree theres a lot of skill that goes into doing br shooting, more than just sticking it into the bench rest and pulling the trigger. when i shot from the bench rest i enjoyed seeing how well my gun would perform with federal premium ammo, but i personally like to test my own abilities to shoot the gun along with what the gun can do, if that makes sense.

again, im not trying to turn this into a pissing match with the br guys, if i made it sound as if it takes no skill then i appologize, wasnt the intention of my posts, to me it just seems less challenging to shoot from a bench rest then it does to shoot from a bi pod and a bag when youre facing the same conditions. ill agree youre a lot more accurate from a bench

 

[Trevor60]

you keep saying you are not trying to demean short range benchrest but the only difference you keep referring to is the actual handling of the rifle. And it is because BR shooters use a front and rear bag and have slight contact which you claim makes it less challenging (simple in your eye) The only part of BR shooting that is simple is driving up to the range. All the same skill set that u keep talking about to hit a 1,500 yard target is required to AGG (meaning over several relays) in the .2's or for those skilled enough the .1's. My guess is even though you have shot your rifle in a vise (comparable to a front rest) you have never shot groups like this

Here is the world small group record for 5 shots at 600 yards.. you read correctly 5 shots at a distance of 600 yards. my guess is there was a whole lot of work involved then just then simply returning the gun to battery.

Here is a slightly larger 5 shot group 1.403 Inches at 1,000 another Brench rest world record.

And because we are discussing the short range game here is a fellow Canadians record heavy gun 10 shot (yes 10 shots) at 200 which measured .371.. kudos to Bill Gammon...and my apologies as well as i can't get any picture larger then this

So while you say your are not trying to trivialize bench rest shooting. I would guess not on your best day using any of these 3 guys equipment you could match their groups. I know most of the world can't

Even if you don't respect the game at least respect the players.

All the Best
Trevor

 

[uchi]

you keep saying you are not trying to demine short range bench rest but the only difference you keep refering to is the actual handling of he rifle. And it is because BR shooters usea front and rear bag and have slight contact makes it less challenging (simple in your eye) The only part of BR shooting that is simple is driving up to the range. All the same skill set that u keep talking about to hit a 1,500 yard target is required to agg (meaning over several relays) in the .2's or for those skilled enough the .1's. My guess is even though you have shot your rifle in a vise (comparable to a front rest) you have never shot groups like this

im going to guess you havent either, so why post a picture of that? i could go find you video on youtube of lr sniper hits, in fact i found one today where a guy popped a squirrel at over 600 yards.

this is what im ultimately getting at, and i dont want to bring in the real world scenario military applications but heres an example, this guy is getting kills over 1000 yards off a bi pod, he didnt bring a bench rest out there with him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK2P70K4c94

this police sniper is accurate enough at whatever range hes at, not just luckily popping off at a gong, shoots a hand gun out of a guys hand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDSwdZNbaGY

637 yard shot at a squirrel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsJ6H3ll6ms&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL4B7AD7916F42B562

what im getting at is this stuff takes skill, someone said its just lucky shooting and any idiot can basically learn to shoot long range, yet it requires the same level of skill to read the wind and terrain for both, difference is the lr guys arent shooting off a fixed bench theyre holding the gun steady. i think thats what impresses me about the lr over the br stuff. both take high levels of skill, neither of which i posses.

i think ultimately i see it like this now that i think about it some more, and ill go back to the car thing

i like cars, well bikes now, but ill use cars. some people like show cars, some people like race cars. we all like cars, just different types with different uses