Berger, Ballistic tip, meant bone penetration, accubond control test.
- Thread starter kman300
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bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
you need to know approximate wind drift of a high BC bullet just like with a "regular" one. There again is my point, people seem to think they can somehow defy the laws of physics. A miss is a miss, regardless of bullet.
The exact reason they shouldn't be used for hunting, one can never know the range ahead of time. This is why I use bullets that perform at all ranges. Thanks for confirming what I've been preaching.
Last kick at the can with you, good sir.
The wind from 0 to lets say 1000 yards does not always come from the same direction or speed for the entire distance you choose to shoot at. You could have 300 yards of 90 degree left 10mph, 200 yards of 80 degree right 12mph, then some upwind thrown in there and so on. Unless you have wind flags everywhere there is no way to know all the variables the wind will throw into your equation. So if a high bc bullet drifts 30" less at 1000 yards in a 10mph 90 degree wind than "normal" one that means that all those random winds you might get will push it off course that much less and you are much more likely to hit your target than you would be with a normal bullet. So yes, a miss is a miss but a high bc bullet gives you a better chance to hit your target due to unknown variables you encounter at longer range.
As I already mentioned, don't walk around with a fragile bullet in the pipe if you intend on shooting an animal that will jump up and run away or you will only be shooting short ranges. Making a long shot takes time and requires the animal to be far away so you have the time to make the shot. You have all the time in the world to put that fragile bullet into your chamber in a long range scenario.
Also two gold stars for you for posting quotes out of context again. You did this once before and here you go again.
Again, use whatever you want but don't tell people they shouldn't use them because you don't understand wind drift or the concept that a high bc fragile bullet out of a 300 win mag at close range will not turn out well. If you didn't know how far you would be shooting you should have planned for the worst case scenario, which would be an animal at close range. You should not have used a bullet intended for long range. Every bullet has its intended performance envelope.
No bullet is perfect for everything, I have had Nosler Partions fail to expand in a moose shot at a long distance (180gr partion from 300 wm). The bullet looked like it could be reloaded and shot again except for the rifling marks on it. So the argument can go both ways...long distance with a partion fail, short distance with a VLD fail.
I haven't used Bergers on a game animal yet but this coming year I certainly will give them a try...although after reading both arguments here I will be more conscious of shot presentation at close range.
I haven't used Bergers on a game animal yet but this coming year I certainly will give them a try...although after reading both arguments here I will be more conscious of shot presentation at close range.
Now THAT is definitely something you don't hear about often, if ever. Having a lead core for it not to expand it would have to hit the target at velocities well under that of a 22 short at 100 yards, or slower. What was the distance and shot placement, and do you have any pictures of this bullet?
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Well my friend, you're evidently a far better hunter than I'll ever be, as I never know how far I'll be shooting ahead of time, that's why I prefer to use bullets that work adequately at all ranges.
A little out of context but, between all these posts we have designed the ultimate hunting bullet for all ranges and velocities..........My question is would you pay $2-5 dollars per bullet IF we could convince a manufacturer to build it? It's pretty obvious what we all want............A bonded, partitioned bullet, with a VLD profile and a BC over .6 (let's assume a 190-200gn 30 cal) with a polycarbonate tip and a hollow cavity beneath and a thin tapered jacket at the nose to promote long range, low velocity expansion. This with the quality control to shoot sub 1/2 moa groups should suffice for any and all big game hunting at any and all velocities and ranges. Does that about sum up our needs without compromise? I would buy and use such a bullet in every caliber I own, as long as it was on the heavier weight range per caliber. We'd still have varmint bullets and match bullets and solids and big bore round nose softs, but for general hunting from 6mm to .375 this would be the ultimate hunting bullet. Then the same company would need to build a basic el cheapo cup and core bullet with the same profile and CoG and bc for $0.25 a bullet so we could practice with out breaking the bank. This is doable, if we as hunters demand it and are willing to pay for it.
Interested in your opinions.................................
Douglas
Interested in your opinions.................................
Douglas
Douglas, if I may call you that, I have been wishing for an accubond partition boat tail bullet with match quality manufacturing for a long time, I really don't need it to be a VLD, nor do I want or need the hollow cavity, but the ballistic tip might be nice to help prevent deformation caused by handling and magazines.
So for me, a polycarbonate tipped boat tail partition made with match quality offered in either spitzer or VLD, or both, would be the ONLY bullet I would ever buy except for varmints in any and all calibers. Ever. Bonding would be nice as well, but to save a few $$ it really wouldn't matter to me personally, just give me the tipped, boat tail partition made to match specs at least!
Regards, Bill
So for me, a polycarbonate tipped boat tail partition made with match quality offered in either spitzer or VLD, or both, would be the ONLY bullet I would ever buy except for varmints in any and all calibers. Ever. Bonding would be nice as well, but to save a few $$ it really wouldn't matter to me personally, just give me the tipped, boat tail partition made to match specs at least!
Regards, Bill
NAB bullets work fine without a partition. I think a guy has to decide what sort of hunting is he going to do?
0-500 yards the NAB and TTSX or LRX should work close or far, and have decent BC- enough for accurate shots on animals.
If you are a guy setting out to only shoot past 500, then I guess you choose the blow up bullets.
0-500 yards the NAB and TTSX or LRX should work close or far, and have decent BC- enough for accurate shots on animals.
If you are a guy setting out to only shoot past 500, then I guess you choose the blow up bullets.
Actually the bonding and frangible nose as well as the VLD profile is for those Berger shooters........the point is to accomodate EVERY hunter with one bullet. I truly believe that the company that did this would, with the correct marketing, would take the bullet industy by surprise and take 60-80% of the hunting bullet market for magnum calibers. Possibly a great percentage of the standard hunting calibers too.
Ahh I see, other than varmints, I don't have much use for frangibles. However your idea does have some merit, an accurate long range bullet that will do anything asked of it, at any speed, vs any game/target.
I just want one that is accurate as a laser, good BC, SD, expands reliably, and will guarantee penetration of hide, muscle, bone, lungs, bone, muscle, hide at any reasonable speed. I don't ask much do I? Lol
I just want one that is accurate as a laser, good BC, SD, expands reliably, and will guarantee penetration of hide, muscle, bone, lungs, bone, muscle, hide at any reasonable speed. I don't ask much do I? Lol
Unless the cost was reasonable, most guys wouldn't use them. They only shoot 0-500 yds TOPS and there are plenty of bullets that can do that just fine.
But maybe we come close with the the Nosler LR NAB
Available in 6.5mm 129gr - BC .561, 277" 150gr - BC .625, 7mm 150gr - BC .611, 7mm 168gr - BC .652, 7mm 175gr - BC .672, 30 cal 190gr - BC .640, and 30 cal 210gr - BC .730
Then why the all rage over bullets like Berger and Matrix, and any match bullet, it has nothing to do with its terminal performance that's for sure.
If the partition was as or more accurate as the bullets used for 1000 meter competition shooting, that's what they would ALL be buying.
Not to get into this pi$$ing contest late but after seeing this thread I gave some real thought to what I choose for hunting. GMX or TTSX/TSX for me.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...-vs-Lead-Bullets&highlight=lead+contamination
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...-vs-Lead-Bullets&highlight=lead+contamination
Not at $2-5 a bullet they wouldn't be.
Lol $2.00 to $5.00? What bullets are in that price range? Good lord, I must live in a cave or something. I thought I was using very good, and fairly expensive bullets with NAB's, Partitions, sierras, Bergers, etc...
If you take a moment to read CFMBI's post above, you will see that is exactly what was proposed
WOW........those are some impressive BCs and in a REAL hunting bullet......I already use ABs in any of my rifles that like them this is a real bonus.........COOOOOOOL.
Hot damn, a new 210 gnr for my 300 RUM.
