Bersa Thunder .380 is internal lock legal ?

Brewster20

Brewster20

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Just received my new Bersa Thunder .380, and I am more than fully satisfied with it !! What a great little pistol. My question is, does the internal trigger lock satisfy the legal requirements ?
It fully locks and dis-connects the trigger. Seems good to go to me.
 
[h=2]Storage of Restricted Firearms[/h]6 An individual may store a restricted firearm only if

  • (a) it is unloaded;
  • (b) it is
    • (i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device and stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or
    • (ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked; and
  • (c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in
    • (i) a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or
    • (ii) a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked.
 
This question has been asked multiple times, mostly in regard to the modern S&W revolvers with the internal lock. Lots of differing opinions but I would go by the letter of the storage and transport regulations. . This line would seem to apply....." rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device".

Having said that, if I owned such a gun I would probably continue to apply a trigger lock and never use the internal one......not for any fear of breaking the law but I hate keys. ALL my locks ( for transport cases and trigger) are combination locks so I never have to worry about misplacing or forgetting keys. I also wonder about a mechanical failure. If a trigger lock goes wonky 5-10 seconds with a large screwdriver and it's off. An internal lock that won't unlock might well require the gun being sent for service.
 
Pure and simple. We won't know till someone gets charged and it's tested in court. With a trigger lock there is no doubt.
 
The Bersa comes with a very unique case, small but enough to hold the .380 A normal trigger lock (combination or keyed ) will not fit in the case. I don't mind putting a regular lock on it, but the Bersa case takes up a lot less room in the range bag than a regular case.

View attachment 331275
 
The regs also define what a locking device is. It refers to when a lock is ‘applied to the gun’ which some interpret as meaning an external device. But frankly as with several pieces of the act and regs that could be interpreted differently.

I called the CFP and was told, no, internal lock would not pass. so I’ll go with that until I see something different in writing.
Combo locks are easy for going to the range. Screw down locks are cheap when you sell.
 
gdawg said:
The regs also define what a locking device is. It refers to when a lock is ‘applied to the gun’ which some interpret as meaning an external device. But frankly as with several pieces of the act and regs that could be interpreted differently.

I called the CFP and was told, no, internal lock would not pass. so I’ll go with that until I see something different in writing.
Combo locks are easy for going to the range. Screw down locks are cheap when you sell.
Click to expand...


I am leaning towards an external device (trigger Lock), as you mentioned:

Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations
SOR/98-209
FIREARMS ACT

Transportation of Restricted Firearms
11#An individual may transport a restricted firearm only if
(a)#it is unloaded;
(b)#it is rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device;
(c)#it is in a locked container that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot readily be broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation;

secure locking device means a device
(a)#that can only be opened or released by the use of an electronic, magnetic or mechanical key or by setting the device in accordance with an alphabetical or numerical combination; and
(b)#that, when applied to a firearm, prevents the firearm from being discharged. (dispositif de verrouillage sécuritaire)
Transportation of Restricted Firearms
11#An individual may transport a restricted firearm only if
(a)#it is unloaded;
(b)#it is rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device;
 
Brewster20 said:
I am leaning towards an external device (trigger Lock), as you mentioned:

Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations
SOR/98-209
FIREARMS ACT

Transportation of Restricted Firearms
11#An individual may transport a restricted firearm only if
(a)#it is unloaded;
(b)#it is rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device;
(c)#it is in a locked container that is made of an opaque material and is of such strength, construction and nature that it cannot readily be broken open or into or accidentally opened during transportation;

secure locking device means a device
(a)#that can only be opened or released by the use of an electronic, magnetic or mechanical key or by setting the device in accordance with an alphabetical or numerical combination; and
(b)#that, when applied to a firearm, prevents the firearm from being discharged. (dispositif de verrouillage sécuritaire)
Transportation of Restricted Firearms
11#An individual may transport a restricted firearm only if
(a)#it is unloaded;
(b)#it is rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device;
Click to expand...

As others have said....a very gray area. You could easily interpret that the act of engaging the internal lock as being "applying" it to the firearm. FWIW I'd be comfortable transporting a pistol with an internal lock engaged......your tolerance for risk may vary ;)

Here's another question. How many people here have ever been stopped going to or from the range and had their firearms inspected for compliance with the transport regulations? I don't know about elsewhere in the country but around here I think you should worry more about getting struck by lightning or run over by a logging truck.
 
Last edited:
It's one more thing I am capable of forgetting to carry to the range! I'm perfectly happy with my combination trigger locks and combination carry case locks
 
I find that one can make a well measured hole in most cases to use a regular trigger lock without compromising the security of the case.
 
gdawg said:
The regs also define what a locking device is. It refers to when a lock is ‘applied to the gun’ which some interpret as meaning an external device. But frankly as with several pieces of the act and regs that could be interpreted differently.

I called the CFP and was told, no, internal lock would not pass. so I’ll go with that until I see something different in writing.
Combo locks are easy for going to the range. Screw down locks are cheap when you sell.
Click to expand...

So when you called, did you ask for this answer to be sent to you in writing quoting the particular regulation that states that fact, otherwise it is simply the opinion of the minion on the other end of the phone with no more force in law than my opinion.

"Rendered inoperable" is exactly what this internal lock does and it requires the use of a tool or we could call it a key to make the firearm work.

Scott
 
I buy padlocks from the local locksmith keyed alike only need one key but I have a couple dozen as each lock comes with two ,put one on truck keys another with rang keys and matching locks on all safes . If you can take it out you must have the key.:)
 
m39a2 said:
So when you called, did you ask for this answer to be sent to you in writing quoting the particular regulation that states that fact, otherwise it is simply the opinion of the minion on the other end of the phone with no more force in law than my opinion.

"Rendered inoperable" is exactly what this internal lock does and it requires the use of a tool or we could call it a key to make the firearm work.

Scott
Click to expand...

As has been pointed out there isn't a reg that states that fact. But if he said the internal lock was fine, then I might ask for it in writing....

There is a case to be made for the acceptability of the internal lock, but I'm not basing my decision to use a particular lock based on what I think i can argue. I'm basing my decision on minimizing any potential hassles, even if the scenario of being challenged is remote to begin with. That said, I probably wouldn't use the internal lock anyway i am likely to lose the key, and I have only owned 1 gun that had it.
 
I called the Ontario CFO to ask about this when I got a S&W revolver, and the response was "It would be up to the officer on-scene," which basically means 'Do you want to be the test case in court for internal locks?'
 
F-Tang said:
I called the Ontario CFO to ask about this when I got a S&W revolver, and the response was "It would be up to the officer on-scene," which basically means 'Do you want to be the test case in court for internal locks?'
Click to expand...

This. It sucks that we have to think this way. Yet we are the problem...LAGOs debating o how best to follow the spirit of silly laws.
 
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