Best Defence Cartidge?
- Thread starter BruderShweigen
- Start date
- Location
- Calgary, AB
If I were in Stars & Stripes land my two carry choices would be:
Auto: .45 ACP Federal Hydra Shocks within a Para Ord 13-45 LDA.
Wheelie: .44 Special handloaded on the warm side in S&W's 3 inch, 5 shot, L frame 696.
Auto: .45 ACP Federal Hydra Shocks within a Para Ord 13-45 LDA.
Wheelie: .44 Special handloaded on the warm side in S&W's 3 inch, 5 shot, L frame 696.
For some reason, my spidey sense is tingling.......
I've had this feeling before, and then a while later I find out the persons a troll.
Can't explain it, or put my finger on it- just a gut feeling.
Bruder, my apologies if you are not but a hunch is a hunch.
I've had this feeling before, and then a while later I find out the persons a troll.
Can't explain it, or put my finger on it- just a gut feeling.
Bruder, my apologies if you are not but a hunch is a hunch.
echo4lima said:
What good would a big-bore round do if you can't follow it up with another accurate shot? God forbid you need to discharge your gun on a...piece of paper, but if you do it would be a severe situation where fear of extreme bodily harm or loss of life would be factors of your desicion. A big .44 would probably stop anybody but not everybody can shoot that thing accurately, and in the event of an inadequate shot placement, a follow-up round would be desperately needed.
- Location
- maple ridge b.c
Logic and reason tell me it's ok to get on an airplane...but I still don't like it.
Logic and reason tell me the 9mm is not an inept,puny, girly cartrige,and that the .45 is not thors freakin hammer.I just feel beter with a .45 around
why hasn't some one mentioned a 125 gr .357 mag.
Logic and reason tell me the 9mm is not an inept,puny, girly cartrige,and that the .45 is not thors freakin hammer.I just feel beter with a .45 around
why hasn't some one mentioned a 125 gr .357 mag.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
When the 9mm/.45 debate began both rounds were loaded with round nose bullets. The debate should of been concluded in the Phillipines, when the US Army dropped the .38 Long Colt in favour of the .45 due to the number of American Soldiers being hacked to death by Moro warriors who had been hit solidly with .38 bullets.
Since then the debate has been muddied up by all sorts of techniques devised to make bullets expand. Some of these worked pretty well while others did not. I remember shooting 158 gr. Sierra hollow points in a maximum load from my .357 and the recovered bullets were for all intents purposes unchanged. In a more practical example, I heard from a reliable source that Federal Hydra-Shoks failed to upset when the nose cavity filled with material from heavy outer clothing, yet these bullets gained a good reputation when used in warm climates and the recipients did not wear parkas.
I have concluded from my own tests that a 9mm will out penetrate a .45, but this is of little advantage in the defensive HG, and is a disadvantage when viewed from the basis of liability in an urban environment. The FBI established that penetration of 12" was necessary to produce the desired effects in tissue. Beyond that, anything which can be done to improve the 9mm can also be done to improve the .45.
When we look at the history of defensive shootings in Canadian Courts two things stand out. One is that if you are using handloaded ammo you loose, because under the law to handload ammo is akin to premeditation. The second point which stands out is that if you use hollowpoint ammo, it is percieved that you are attemting to due more than reasonable harm to your attacker, so again you loose. With these historic gems in mind, I would suggest that in Canada the best defensive load is a .45 Auto loaded with round nose factory ammo.
Since then the debate has been muddied up by all sorts of techniques devised to make bullets expand. Some of these worked pretty well while others did not. I remember shooting 158 gr. Sierra hollow points in a maximum load from my .357 and the recovered bullets were for all intents purposes unchanged. In a more practical example, I heard from a reliable source that Federal Hydra-Shoks failed to upset when the nose cavity filled with material from heavy outer clothing, yet these bullets gained a good reputation when used in warm climates and the recipients did not wear parkas.
I have concluded from my own tests that a 9mm will out penetrate a .45, but this is of little advantage in the defensive HG, and is a disadvantage when viewed from the basis of liability in an urban environment. The FBI established that penetration of 12" was necessary to produce the desired effects in tissue. Beyond that, anything which can be done to improve the 9mm can also be done to improve the .45.
When we look at the history of defensive shootings in Canadian Courts two things stand out. One is that if you are using handloaded ammo you loose, because under the law to handload ammo is akin to premeditation. The second point which stands out is that if you use hollowpoint ammo, it is percieved that you are attemting to due more than reasonable harm to your attacker, so again you loose. With these historic gems in mind, I would suggest that in Canada the best defensive load is a .45 Auto loaded with round nose factory ammo.
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Boomer
I don't know of the cases you quote but local judge and RCMP advie me a good shoot is a good shoot a bad shoot is a bad shoot and that is what is going to determine guilt or innocense. They type of ammo is of no concequence. Ammon determining guilt is an urban legend. I know of one particular case where the subject was never raised....I was the jury foreman.
Stay Safe
I don't know of the cases you quote but local judge and RCMP advie me a good shoot is a good shoot a bad shoot is a bad shoot and that is what is going to determine guilt or innocense. They type of ammo is of no concequence. Ammon determining guilt is an urban legend. I know of one particular case where the subject was never raised....I was the jury foreman.
Stay Safe
Already done. See here:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35706&highlight=suputin
Its true. I did that exact test here:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39008
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Canuck44 said:
This is stretching my memory back 25 years or more, but came from someone associated with the AG's office in Manitoba. I took it as gospel due to the source, but I apologize if it turns out to be inaccurate. Perhaps someone with a legal background can shed light on this.
Has this BruderSchweigen person been banned?
I got a PM from him stating he was, probably because I posted that I thought he might be a troll.
I am learning to pick them out quickly, a real, mature firearms owner has a certain way about them and kids and trolls can't pretend for too long.
Its the little things that give them away.
I got a PM from him stating he was, probably because I posted that I thought he might be a troll.
I am learning to pick them out quickly, a real, mature firearms owner has a certain way about them and kids and trolls can't pretend for too long.
Its the little things that give them away.
