Best Defence Cartidge?

The Federal Hydra-shok in 9mm are on par with the Winchester Ranger SXT, which I think are called something different now, as I couldn't find them on the Winchester website.
Both run a little hot over target ammunition.
Using a HP that a police agency uses is a smart idea. IF, (the odds are very, very slim), you had to use this round in a self defence scenario in your home, it would no more be considered "pre-meditated", than any L.E.O using it in self defence. These rounds are meant to stop persons. If you are even thinking about this, you had better do some research on USE of Force, including use of Lethal force, if you don't have it already. (ie: Police, Corrections, DFO, Military, DNR, Armed guards). would normally have this in their training. Do some training on the range with scenarios, which is what I believe all LE Angencies require. It is important to note that not all situations end in lethal force, so train for that as well.
 
I'm a .45 guy (if you couldn't guess)
.44 magnum just might be enough to nock down that paper target.
if that's not enough, you can't go wrong w/ 12 guage double odd buck shot, Just in case it's a double layer of paper targets ;)
 
Yes, actually the Winchester SXT hollow points are very good in expansion & weight retention. I have a box of each for my pistol calibres.
 
The Federal Hydrashoks are nowhere near the same ballpark as the Winchester SXT Ranger T's. The Hydrashok's are an old design that tend to do poorly on the FBI denim tests and the Ranger T's have been tweaked over the years to provide probably the best performing rounds on the market today. I am not talking about Winchester Supreme SXT, or Rangers, I am talking the real deal. "T-series" (RA9AT)
 
BruderShweigen said:
So i'm looking forward to buy a handgun soon, and i was looking for the best defense load. I heard the .38 Super is very good, the 10mm Also. What do you say?
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10mm is good, as long as you have the proper load since it could easily punch through someone and hit the pizzaman behind. I have Winchester SXT in 180gr for my G29 and Win Ranger 147gr for my P7. I also have some Glaser rounds 9mm that a friend sent me from Miami but I still have doubts on their stopping power. Of course, none of these bullets would be used against a human being and are just for fun and in case UFO kick down my door :D
 
Interesting, you and I must have been looking at different data. Ballistic gelatin and denim tests the Federal 147gr seemed to do the same as Winchester 147gr. for retention, penetration, and expansion.

This was almost a year ago that a member from the forum provided me with a link. Can't seem to find it.
 
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groundskeeper willy said:
Has this BruderSchweigen person been banned?
I got a PM from him stating he was, probably because I posted that I thought he might be a troll.

I am learning to pick them out quickly, a real, mature firearms owner has a certain way about them and kids and trolls can't pretend for too long.
Its the little things that give them away.
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Like i said, i'm not looking for trouble.
 
Pick 44 Special or 45 ACP Wilderness Handgun

To qualify for OHA/CSSA Wilderness Handgun where the criteria is to stop a Black Bear Attack by a frontal lobe shot a zero feet, my pick to qualify was a 1911A1 45 ACP with 230grain loads.
It worked in the Thompson LaGarde Tests in 1905; it works today eh! There are any number of rounds but my overall pick for hitting power;penetration through a thick boned bear skull and repeat shots in the 1911A1 .45ACP.

Have fired same Win-Rem factory 230gr. 45ACP round thousands of times in IPSC matches 1991-2005.

Sure it adds $$ to a Match but you really get a chance to test out repeat shots with full charge loads. FUNCTIONS FLAWLESSLY BUT you cant shoot this factory round "limp wristed" whatsoever.

1911A1 Pistol is easily maintained. Any parts that wear out or break are a drop in repair.

My second choice for the same task is the S&W Model 29 with 246grain factory loads in 44 Special or 44 Magnum. I have shot the M-29 in 4"brl a good amount over the past 25 years; for repeat shots that are manageable with Herrett's grips I prefer the 44 Special at point blank range for Wilderness Handgun use.
 
sonofpaleface said:
To qualify for OHA/CSSA Wilderness Handgun where the criteria is to stop a Black Bear Attack by a frontal lobe shot a zero feet, my pick to qualify was a 1911A1 45 ACP with 230grain loads.
It worked in the Thompson LaGarde Tests in 1905; it works today eh! There are any number of rounds but my overall pick for hitting power;penetration through a thick boned bear skull and repeat shots in the 1911A1 .45ACP.

Have fired same Win-Rem factory 230gr. 45ACP round thousands of times in IPSC matches 1991-2005.

Sure it adds $$ to a Match but you really get a chance to test out repeat shots with full charge loads. FUNCTIONS FLAWLESSLY BUT you cant shoot this factory round "limp wristed" whatsoever.

1911A1 Pistol is easily maintained. Any parts that wear out or break are a drop in repair.

My second choice for the same task is the S&W Model 29 with 246grain factory loads in 44 Special or 44 Magnum. I have shot the M-29 in 4"brl a good amount over the past 25 years; for repeat shots that are manageable with Herrett's grips I prefer the 44 Special at point blank range for Wilderness Handgun use.
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Just a question, wouldnt the 230gr .45 round be a bit too slow to punch through a bear skull ?
 
Thompson LaGarde Tests: Virtually Contact Shot EH

My confidence in the 45ACP Hardball to do this reliably is based on the distance involved (living room length or less) and point of aim, a looney sized area just up from middle of black bear's eyes.

With a full jacketed bullet in my estimation it would punch through. I am somewhat amazed at how many 2/4 baffles a 45ACP will plow through and at various angles as well.

As I remember the 1905 Thompson LaGarde ballistic tests were carried out on live cattle by shooting them in the head at contact range to determine a cartridge of sufficient power.

Essentially that is how the Colt .45ACP with its 230 FMJ bullet was developed. One of my American friends told me he had a 275 grain load for the same purpose. In handloading the 45ACP there are a lot of options.

I will check my reference base to see if I can get anything more definitive.

There must be some ballistic gelatin tests out there. Also Elmer Keith's book "Sixguns" had some interesting live game performance data on large dangerous animals.

Subject to additional information, I have every confidence in the 45ACP FMJ 230 grain ammuniton and the Colt 1911A1 to do whatever is asked of it. For really cold weather and contact shots I would prefer the S&W Model 29 with 44 Special loads.
 
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sonofpaleface

You might want to look at 200 gr LSWC for your round. The sharpe shoulders and flat meplat are effective at cutting blood vessels. IMHO and that of others makes it a more effective round. The one problem with a RN bullet is it's tendency to slip around tissue, the latter being quite elastic. There are only two incrediants that account for a kill and that is blood loss or castastrophic damage to the nervose system. Bullet placement and penetration is everything.

Stay Safe
 
Thanks Canuck! Good Idea!

As above, thanks for the recommendation. Just thought too that a BETTER choice would be my Colt Delta 10mm. Have been so busy thinking about getting
a 40S&W barrel for it that I have overlooked it as BETTER Wilderness Defence Round.
I do agree that the "Big Hole-Dramatic Blood Loss-Big Wound Channel" is the way to go. Thanks again Canuck as well as Mr T for the 10mm "heads up".
 
Worst case scenario? what if? etc,,,
Some people that live in certain places and work in certain professions want the best defense. The odds are very slim, but a possibility....
 
maurice said:
Worst case scenario? what if? etc,,,
Some people that live in certain places and work in certain professions want the best defense. The odds are very slim, but a possibility....
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That's what I'm asking. Now a few possibilitites, but his actual reason. He is obviously defending himself against bears or something and probably has an ATC or something, right?
 
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