best for Elk at distance 7 mm mag or 300 win mag ?

jjohnwm said:
Boomer, that is a cool photo. You should check out the Accurate Reloading website...there's a great deal of criticism of Mark Sullivan on there, but it's undeniable that none of it seems to come from his clients. I certainly have no personal experience of or with him, but I vividly recall some footage of him talking to the camera after the shot, while a buffalo thrashed and writhed behind him. I found it quite infuriating...it's bad enough to watch TV hunters knock an animal down, then immediately start high-fiving and mugging for the camera without even watching to make sure the critter doesn't get up...but to watch an animal suffering a long, protracted death while the guy with the gun ignores it and yaks to the audience instead of shooting again is something I find very hard to accept.

Sorry for the highjack...now everybody go back to shooting big game with your ballistics calculators...er, I mean...guns....
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Yup, Mark should have sued Saeed years ago, he'd of won too, but he believes whether he's criticized or praised, as long as folks are talking it drives interest and sells videos. I have not seen the video you're referring to, but consider this . . . its normal for a big game hunter to allow a wounded animal to make cover lie down, and "stiffen up" for 20 minutes or half an hour before following up . . . many hunters believe this offers the best chance of putting the animal away as the wounded animal might stay ahead of him otherwise. But Sullivan is accused of being unethical because he took 90 seconds to walk up on a wounded buffalo and make a killing shot. Does that seem logical?
 
Boomer said:
Yup, Mark should have sued Saeed years ago, he'd of won too, but he believes whether he's criticized or praised, as long as folks are talking it drives interest and sells videos. I have not seen the video you're referring to, but consider this . . . its normal for a big game hunter to allow a wounded animal to make cover lie down, and "stiffen up" for 20 minutes or half an hour before following up . . . many hunters believe this offers the best chance of putting the animal away as the wounded animal might stay ahead of him otherwise. But Sullivan is accused of being unethical because he took 90 seconds to walk up on a wounded buffalo and make a killing shot. Does that seem logical?
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Ah, but he didn't take the shot as soon as he could have or should have, he waited for the wounded animals to rise back up and charge, for breathtaking footage. That's the issue.
 
I'm familiar with the aimless twitching of a head shot animal, and sadly, this was not it. The animal was clearly conscious and making a concerted but unsuccessful effort to regain its feet. It was in the centre of a clear area, no brush or cover, absolutely nothing to prevent a shot being taken immediately. Distance from the hunter is difficult to judge on video...the focal length of the lens can warp pespective...but it was certainly close enough to take an unobscured shot, or move in if necessary. I honestly don't see how anyone could watch that and ignore it, but Sullivan had his back turned to the creature and chatted conversationally to the camera for many minutes. I don't have the video to refer to, but I believe he had his gun over his shoulder the whole time.

Aside from the foolish aspect of turning his back on the situation, I was practically shouting at the screen "Shut up and finish that critter, you arrogant conceited f%^&$r!" I have little use for most hunting videos, but this particular scene stands head over shoulders above others in its portrayal of disgusting behaviour in the field.

Again, sorry for the highjack...almost feels like being on AR!
 
I find these threads entertaining - and I mean no disprespect by this - because the passion of folks here is fantastic. Someone should do a Master's Thesis on the psychology of how and why threads about 7mm or .300 Mag for Elk turn into ethics of killing charging Cape Buffalo threads.

:)
 
1899 said:
I find these threads entertaining - and I mean no disprespect by this - because the passion of folks here is fantastic. Someone should do a Master's Thesis on the psychology of how and why threads about 7mm or .300 Mag for Elk turn into ethics of killing charging Cape Buffalo threads.

:)
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It's because a 7 Rem Mag is an open invitation to stunt shooting ;)
All high velocity, flat-shooting cartridge are "victims" of this disease.
Thank God, both 338 Win Mag and 375 H&H have proven immune to it.

A huge fan of 140gr Accubond driven at 3200fps,

Alex
 
Boomer said:
Okay, I'm intrigued, can you tell me which video this occurred on; I thought I had most of them, but I have not seen that.
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OK, apologies to the OP for the hijack, last post off topic, I promise:

Africa's Black Death is the video, the first one.

"Even though this was my first year as a professional hunter, I knew how I wanted to hunt. I believed in certain things then as I still believe in those same things today. The ethics and discipline I bring to the sport of hunting have not changed.

Rather than shooting the bull in the back as he lay on the ground, I realized I had once again been afforded the opportunity to practice dangerous game hunting my way. I would walk up and let the wounded Cape buffalo decide how he is to die. By doing so, I knowlingly and willingly was offering my life in return. One thing is for certain, you cannot walk up to a wounded and greatly pissed- off Black Death if you are not first prepared to die yourself. You can only do what I did then and as I have done every hunting season since, if you are prepared to pay the ultimate price; your very life on this Earth."

http://www.nitroexpresssafaris.com/...rviceName=AfricasBlackDeath+Username=sullivan

A little arrogant and over the top? You decide.


Now back to why the 7mmRM is inferior to the 300WM. :D
 
If you need to buy a new rifle, go with the 300. If it was me, I wouldn't bother with the 7mm if you already have an '06 - I've hunted extensively with both the 7 and '06, and I'd give the edge to the '06. I've also hunted extensively with both the 300 Win Mag and 300 Wby Mag, and would choose either 300 over the 7. Either way, the only practical difference between the '06 and the 300 Win Mag is 100 yards, IE. your typical 300 Win Mag 180 gr load's velocity at 100 yards is pretty much what the '06 is doing at the muzzle.
 
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Hey no worrys man , I already bought the 300 win mag....and keep thinking i should buy a 7 mm mag as well
Loooong n flat eh ? ;-)
Honestly i dident get a 7 for all the wrong reasons....
But i do know i got the mag cause punchin paper and flattening a moose are not the same thing ;-)

bearkilr said:
OK, apologies to the OP for the hijack, last post off topic, I promise:

Africa's Black Death is the video, the first one.

"Even though this was my first year as a professional hunter, I knew how I wanted to hunt. I believed in certain things then as I still believe in those same things today. The ethics and discipline I bring to the sport of hunting have not changed.

Rather than shooting the bull in the back as he lay on the ground, I realized I had once again been afforded the opportunity to practice dangerous game hunting my way. I would walk up and let the wounded Cape buffalo decide how he is to die. By doing so, I knowlingly and willingly was offering my life in return. One thing is for certain, you cannot walk up to a wounded and greatly pissed- off Black Death if you are not first prepared to die yourself. You can only do what I did then and as I have done every hunting season since, if you are prepared to pay the ultimate price; your very life on this Earth."

http://www.nitroexpresssafaris.com/...rviceName=AfricasBlackDeath+Username=sullivan

A little arrogant and over the top? You decide.


Now back to why the 7mmRM is inferior to the 300WM. :D
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AlexF said:
It's because a 7 Rem Mag is an open invitation to stunt shooting ;)
All high velocity, flat-shooting cartridge are "victims" of this disease.
Thank God, both 338 Win Mag and 375 H&H have proven immune to it.

A huge fan of 140gr Accubond driven at 3200fps,

Alex
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I recall an article by Warren Page called the Lazarus Bull. Mr Page shot a trophy bull elk with a 160 gr Nosler Partition from his 7mm Mashburn at a range that required 2' of hold over, and the bull dropped as if poleaxed. By the time the the hunter and guide arrived on the spot, the elk had arisen like the Lazarus never to be seen again. Even a expert hunter and target shot with a basement full of trophies can mess up. That doesn't suggest to me that the 7 mag or the 160 Partition is unsuitable for elk, but that human failure is always with us.
 
It also tells me that no matter how hard we try, we can not control 100% of the variables. It is our best effort that counts. Our BEST effort, which encompases a lot more than just placing the shot, or having the right tools... both of which are critical, but not everything....
 
years ago i shot at a nice buck
went for a headshot , only shot that presented itself.
The deer dropped and looked like it was breakdancing..... i think i knocked it sencless for a spell...but it was gone ..no blood ..nothin..gone

I still take headshots, but generaly its a way shorter shot thats hard to miss
 
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