Best HD option in .223?

PinaKaleada said:
Look man. The situation you brought up, where there's multiple of you with multiple pistols and rifles, probably in body armour, knowing that the road rage guy likely doesn't have anything on him, on the road, with open spaces and clear view. And most of you already have time to get sights on the guy looking out for any sudden moves.

I'm not discounting your experience in any way, I'm questioning if it translates the same in a HD situation, where there's 1 of you, and who knows how many of them, and a ton more stress.
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The answer would be yes. Training is training.

And there is a ton of stress when you stop a vehicle in a war zone. Ever heard of suicide vests, IEDs and car bombs?
 
PinaKaleada said:
Hey are you also military/LE? I'm open minded and if you say it's the same I'll believe you. I hope you never encountered suicide vest, car bombs etc. Have you?
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I am not Mil or LE. But I’m pretty sure you don’t need to encounter suicide vests etc. to know you should try and stay away from them.

Do you not realize the stress levels that Mil go thru in a non-permissive environment everytime they have to stop vehicles? When rifles, body armor and your buddies around you won’t help one bit?

And how did this thread go from .223 for HD, to point shooting to Mil and IEDs?? Epic!!
 
Still alive said:
I am not Mil or LE. But I’m pretty sure you don’t need to encounter suicide vests etc. to know you should try and stay away from them.

Do you not realize the stress levels that Mil go thru in a non-permissive environment everytime they have to stop vehicles? When rifles, body armor and your buddies around you won’t help one bit?

And how did this thread go from .223 for HD, to point shooting to Mil and IEDs?? Epic!!
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Well in that case I hope you would respect me for disagreeing with you. If you're Mil/LE and speak from experience I might take it as case study. No offense though.

Not all Mil/LE are constantly in this non-permissive environment you speak of. I don't mean to step on any toes, but I believe most mils dont see real gun fight action, ever.

The closest thing Shawn said he encountered was a random road rage, thats not a "defense" situation. I do thank them sincerely for their service but that would be a different topic.
 
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redshooter said:
There's plenty of Vets on this Forum who have seen Combat, I'm surprised you don't operate under the assumption that you're "talking" to one (not me).

Come on, be honest, you're Trolling us right?
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What I'm more surprised is no one has yet to share their combat experience and the psychological state involved. I know most have their reasons not to, but it would be quite an interesting and valuable thing to share if they choose to do so. The closest thing I've seen is middle east combat footage, but still nothing close up.
 
Still alive said:
I am not Mil or LE. But I’m pretty sure you don’t need to encounter suicide vests etc. to know you should try and stay away from them.

Do you not realize the stress levels that Mil go thru in a non-permissive environment everytime they have to stop vehicles? When rifles, body armor and your buddies around you won’t help one bit?

And how did this thread go from .223 for HD, to point shooting to Mil and IEDs?? Epic!!
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CGN rocks that way.

As a civilian, for my own personal... interests. i want to own:
With any platform
1. The longest distance inside my house.
2. At least 2, preferably 3 car lengths outside my house.

With a rifle
1. as far as i can see around my house.

WRT Platform, if given the choice, i will take a rifle or shotgun almost every time over a pistol. At home i have layers of security, and if the #### escalates to a fight, i have time to equip and position with either. IF it does go down i want to stop the fight as quickly as possible, im not fighting fair, im fighting to win. Period. If that means a 308 or rifled slug down the centerline so be it. Terminal Ballistics are much more effective when they include fist sized holes. For me that's better than debating 9 vs 45 or Gold Dot vs XTP's.
 
Still alive said:
He’s already told you he used his sights. Then you said the situation he was in was not the same as a HD event and you asked if training would translate to a HD situation.

This is going in a circular loop.
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I guess I'm wrong to think that the road rage situation is different from HD, and want to ask for something closer. We could agree to disagree.

Still alive said:
Thanks jparent for bringing it back on track....but tell us, will you use your sights? ;)
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Lol! Good one.
 
Still alive said:
Thanks jparent for bringing it back on track....but tell us, will you use your sights? ;)
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and at the risk of driving the bus of yet another cliff, sure there are lots of scenarios i can see not using the sights, but that would likely be in a contact fight, where i cannot bring the firearm up to a proper shooting position and im forced to defend myself with it. Im sure others are much more imaginative than i in thinking this stuff up, but i try to train realistically and accordingly.
 
PinaKaleada said:
What I'm more surprised is no one has yet to share their combat experience and the psychological state involved. I know most have their reasons not to, but it would be quite an interesting and valuable thing to share if they choose to do so. The closest thing I've seen is middle east combat footage, but still nothing close up.
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Why on earth would anyone with experience like that bother to share anything like what you just asked in a thread like this? It’s clear to everyone reading this train wreck that you are a keyboard warrior with hours and hours of Middle East combat footage watching under your belt who has no desire to really learn anything.
 
jparent said:
and at the risk of driving the bus of yet another cliff, sure there are lots of scenarios i can see not using the sights, but that would likely be in a contact fight, where i cannot bring the firearm up to a proper shooting position and im forced to defend myself with it. Im sure others are much more imaginative than i in thinking this stuff up, but i try to train realistically and accordingly.
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You're just begging me to ask aren't you LOL. Can you elaborate on these scenarios?
 
PinaKaleada said:
You're just begging me to ask aren't you LOL. Can you elaborate on these scenarios?
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I'll give you one:

You enter a room and you are charged by one or many attackers who closes on you as soon as you are in. One grabs your rifle, making it impossible to swing around while another of his buddy is trying to apply a choke on you from behind.

Unholster, point the pistol at one of the 2 (i'd pick buddy that's trying to choke me), press the gun against him and press the trigger. Repeat until threat is gone and take care of your rifle. If there is a physical contact or imminent contact with your attacker(s) (think grizzly bear charging), this is an excellent time to "point and shoot". 3m and more, with adequate training and pratice, one will be able to use its sight without even thinking about it.

I relate "point&shoot" to the shotgun world.
 
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