Best Krieger Price
- Thread starter JEC
- Start date
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6mm Shooter
CGN Regular
- Location
- White City, SK
He is a barrel dealer and is scared someone might get a better deal would be my guess.
I would PM Obtunded and talk with him about it. I am sure he is not trying to get rich off the barrels but rather trying to support a business. If the price isn't what you want then simply try and find another supplier if there is one, or go with another barrel manufacturer.
There are two guys that I know of that sell barrels on this site. Have you spoke with them regarding pricing?
There are two guys that I know of that sell barrels on this site. Have you spoke with them regarding pricing?
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I just looked at the invoice for my Kreiger .308 barrel purchased in 2005, and it was $579. There was a surcharge for a nonstandard twist, but I kept the length 28" or there would be an additional surcharge. The price won't have gone down since then, and consider also that the CDN dollar is on the rocks again, relative to the USD.
What do you want the barrel for, a bolt gun or a gas gun, and does it need to be a nonstandard "one of" kind of thing? If so the price will reflect that. There are Canadian made barrels that are competitive, Ted Gaillard's barrels and Ron Smith's barrels come to mind, I've owned both and they are very good. As far as I'm concerned though, barrels made by Jack Kreiger and Boots Obermeyer are the very best available anywhere, and the best comes at a price.
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WTF, it's ok to ask about pricing on optics, bullets etc., but not barrels, easy there.
I have 2 Kreiger barrels in 6.5 Shoot better than I can. Have 2 Gaillards in 6mm. Shoot better than I can. All 4 barrels are capable of 1/4" in perfect conditions.The Gaillards prob cost 2/3 of Kreiger, but for $200 on a $2000 rifle does it really matter? I have known Ted for 25 yr. He can be a little crusty but he is anal about the barrels he ships.
I have 2 Kreiger barrels in 6.5 Shoot better than I can. Have 2 Gaillards in 6mm. Shoot better than I can. All 4 barrels are capable of 1/4" in perfect conditions.The Gaillards prob cost 2/3 of Kreiger, but for $200 on a $2000 rifle does it really matter? I have known Ted for 25 yr. He can be a little crusty but he is anal about the barrels he ships.
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- Location
- calgary alberta
I can ASSURE you he is not getting rich importing barrels, You can NOT support a business importing barrels in this country, those of us who do import barrels do it for 2 reasons, we personally want that particular brand for our own uses, and if we are going to go through the hassle of importing some for ourselves, we may as well try to help other Canadian firearms owners.
I can import Krieger and know exactly what Obtundeds cost is as it is the same as what I would be paying, if at the end of the day a guy that has put in the time and effort to import a barrel a guy can't make 10 to 15% for his trouble, why get out of bed??
I buy most of my Krieger barrels from Obtunded as he brings in more than I would as our mainline is Rock Creek and Lilja, so if he is willing to go through the hassle I certainly do not begrudge the man the few $$ he makes per barrel.
EC--- yes there is more to the story (and always two sides)-- but can tell you the "deletes" made by site admin were made with good cause and based on a contravention of GCN policy. I may provide details later, but for the time being will keep the issue "private".
My initial post was made after a google search for canadian krieger barrels came up with only one importer whom I did contact... It was my hope that other "dealers" and GCN members would provide me with more options and that perhaps I would even find "the best deal". I see nothing wrong with competion in the marketplace...and until we are told by site admin that we must not look beyond "site sponsors" for prices...will continue shopping for "best prices".
I recently purchased both Gaillard and Pacnor barrels and agree with the comments that they are both fine quality and reasonably priced. But like many here, I am always looking to try something different, hence my interest in the cut rifling process used by Krieger.
Back to the chase....anybody out there want to recommend a Canadian dealer with what they consider "the best barrel prices".
My initial post was made after a google search for canadian krieger barrels came up with only one importer whom I did contact... It was my hope that other "dealers" and GCN members would provide me with more options and that perhaps I would even find "the best deal". I see nothing wrong with competion in the marketplace...and until we are told by site admin that we must not look beyond "site sponsors" for prices...will continue shopping for "best prices".
I recently purchased both Gaillard and Pacnor barrels and agree with the comments that they are both fine quality and reasonably priced. But like many here, I am always looking to try something different, hence my interest in the cut rifling process used by Krieger.
Back to the chase....anybody out there want to recommend a Canadian dealer with what they consider "the best barrel prices".
That is exactly what I was trying to say in my post, I hope I didn't come off the wrong way.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I copied and pasted this from the Obermeyer site and thought that in a discussion concerning custom rifle barrel cost, that this might prove interesting.
Barrel Steels
A Note on Steel
During the manufacturing process, barrel-quality steel is carefully controlled and inspected to
ensure the material structure is correct for rifle barrel use. There are two basic steel options
available: stainless steel and chromium-molybdenum alloy steel. Stainless steels are special,
gun-barrel quality grades of Carpenter or Crucible 416. Our suppliers of chrome-moly steels have
changed as the American steel industry continues to suffer bankruptcies and closures due to
competition from cheap, imported steels. (For more information regarding the impact of the steel
industry crisis on American manufacturing and national security, see "Blood and Iron Pyrite" by
Eric J. Obermeyer in Chronicles: A Magazine of American Culture, Vol. 28 No. 4, April 2004, pages
51-53.) This has resulted in a situation where high-quality specialty grades of steel are becoming
harder to obtain and minimum order quantities are now about 10 times larger. This special quality
steel is not imported and two mills in Europe have turned me down because small quantities of
steel are not worth their efforts. A number of custom barrel-makers are working together to pool
resources in order to have the ability to place combined orders large enough to meet the quantity
threshold. Standard raw chrome-moly blank diameters now will be 1-1/4" and 1-3/8", although this
is subject to change with availability from steel suppliers. One of the former chrome-moly
standards, 1-5/16" bar diameter, may be available in remnant quantities subject to stock on hand.
The normal raw diameter for stainless steel blanks is 1-5/16".
Each basic type of barrel-quality steel has advantages, depending on the application. Chrome-moly
barrels develop a fine-line erosion pattern in the throat, which I compare to fine gravel in a
stream. With bare bullets, this can cause greater variations in velocity, due to drag exerted on
the bullet in the throat region. This situation may result in an increase in the vertical dispersion
of the shots that is particularly noticeable at longer ranges. The testing I have performed in my
target rifles leads me to believe that molybdenum disulfide coating on bullets, when properly
applied, has a mitigating effect in this regard. (Each of the several chrome-moly match rifle barrels
in .260 Remington that I have used in conjunction with moly-coated bullets has exceeded 6000
rounds of accurate life.) Also, chrome-moly having 40 to 50 points of carbon may harden in the
throat area from use. This can cause damage to your chamber reamer if you try to set such a
barrel back. On the other hand, chrome-moly takes more abuse from peening or abrasion, and this
is a big advantage where field use is rough. It also tends to be stronger in cold-weather
environments, such as might be encountered while hunting in Alaska, where the temperature is
often below zero.
Barrel-quality stainless steel is usually identified as type 416R or 416RS, and it has approximately
half the sulfur content of common, warehouse-grade 416. Stainless steel barrels will not harden in
the throat area, which provides a big advantage for target shooters who plan to set their barrels
back when the throats wear. The erosion pattern of stainless steel looks like a dried-up mud
puddle, having large flats with fracture lines. This reduces the drag on the bullet, so there is less
tendency for vertical stringing at long ranges. Sometimes, after a lot of use, a large piece may pop
out from the throat of a stainless steel barrel, causing it to suddenly lose accuracy. Stainless steel
will also scratch or peen easier than chrome-moly barrel steel of comparable hardness. In
applications involving military weapons, this sort of material behavior would present a real
problem, which is why chrome-moly is generally used. Stainless steel also has less ductility than
chrome-moly, particularly when the ambient temperature approaches zero. Thus, a featherweight
stainless steel barrel would not be the best choice for hunting in Alaska. Also, contrary to some
people's notions, stainless steel is not hard to machine; it's actually easier than chrome-moly.
The type of steel used has a significant impact on the price of a barrel, since stainless steel costs
approximately four times more than chrome-moly. In addition to the cost differential associated
with the material in the barrel itself and with the material removed during the manufacturing
process, there are additional costs due to drops resulting from having to purchase bars of certain
lengths, which may not allow for full, end-to-end usage. Furthermore, the relatively high cost of
stainless steel (and the tremendous difficulty of purchasing any barrel-quality steel in smaller
quantities) forces the small manufacturer to tie up substantial amounts of money in inventory.
Nevertheless, the greater cost of stainless steel does not automatically imply that it is a better
material than chrome-moly for a given application.
Barrel Steels
A Note on Steel
During the manufacturing process, barrel-quality steel is carefully controlled and inspected to
ensure the material structure is correct for rifle barrel use. There are two basic steel options
available: stainless steel and chromium-molybdenum alloy steel. Stainless steels are special,
gun-barrel quality grades of Carpenter or Crucible 416. Our suppliers of chrome-moly steels have
changed as the American steel industry continues to suffer bankruptcies and closures due to
competition from cheap, imported steels. (For more information regarding the impact of the steel
industry crisis on American manufacturing and national security, see "Blood and Iron Pyrite" by
Eric J. Obermeyer in Chronicles: A Magazine of American Culture, Vol. 28 No. 4, April 2004, pages
51-53.) This has resulted in a situation where high-quality specialty grades of steel are becoming
harder to obtain and minimum order quantities are now about 10 times larger. This special quality
steel is not imported and two mills in Europe have turned me down because small quantities of
steel are not worth their efforts. A number of custom barrel-makers are working together to pool
resources in order to have the ability to place combined orders large enough to meet the quantity
threshold. Standard raw chrome-moly blank diameters now will be 1-1/4" and 1-3/8", although this
is subject to change with availability from steel suppliers. One of the former chrome-moly
standards, 1-5/16" bar diameter, may be available in remnant quantities subject to stock on hand.
The normal raw diameter for stainless steel blanks is 1-5/16".
Each basic type of barrel-quality steel has advantages, depending on the application. Chrome-moly
barrels develop a fine-line erosion pattern in the throat, which I compare to fine gravel in a
stream. With bare bullets, this can cause greater variations in velocity, due to drag exerted on
the bullet in the throat region. This situation may result in an increase in the vertical dispersion
of the shots that is particularly noticeable at longer ranges. The testing I have performed in my
target rifles leads me to believe that molybdenum disulfide coating on bullets, when properly
applied, has a mitigating effect in this regard. (Each of the several chrome-moly match rifle barrels
in .260 Remington that I have used in conjunction with moly-coated bullets has exceeded 6000
rounds of accurate life.) Also, chrome-moly having 40 to 50 points of carbon may harden in the
throat area from use. This can cause damage to your chamber reamer if you try to set such a
barrel back. On the other hand, chrome-moly takes more abuse from peening or abrasion, and this
is a big advantage where field use is rough. It also tends to be stronger in cold-weather
environments, such as might be encountered while hunting in Alaska, where the temperature is
often below zero.
Barrel-quality stainless steel is usually identified as type 416R or 416RS, and it has approximately
half the sulfur content of common, warehouse-grade 416. Stainless steel barrels will not harden in
the throat area, which provides a big advantage for target shooters who plan to set their barrels
back when the throats wear. The erosion pattern of stainless steel looks like a dried-up mud
puddle, having large flats with fracture lines. This reduces the drag on the bullet, so there is less
tendency for vertical stringing at long ranges. Sometimes, after a lot of use, a large piece may pop
out from the throat of a stainless steel barrel, causing it to suddenly lose accuracy. Stainless steel
will also scratch or peen easier than chrome-moly barrel steel of comparable hardness. In
applications involving military weapons, this sort of material behavior would present a real
problem, which is why chrome-moly is generally used. Stainless steel also has less ductility than
chrome-moly, particularly when the ambient temperature approaches zero. Thus, a featherweight
stainless steel barrel would not be the best choice for hunting in Alaska. Also, contrary to some
people's notions, stainless steel is not hard to machine; it's actually easier than chrome-moly.
The type of steel used has a significant impact on the price of a barrel, since stainless steel costs
approximately four times more than chrome-moly. In addition to the cost differential associated
with the material in the barrel itself and with the material removed during the manufacturing
process, there are additional costs due to drops resulting from having to purchase bars of certain
lengths, which may not allow for full, end-to-end usage. Furthermore, the relatively high cost of
stainless steel (and the tremendous difficulty of purchasing any barrel-quality steel in smaller
quantities) forces the small manufacturer to tie up substantial amounts of money in inventory.
Nevertheless, the greater cost of stainless steel does not automatically imply that it is a better
material than chrome-moly for a given application.
Phone Krieger yourself, tell them you are a Canadian looking for one of their barrels and see who they refer you to. 
I can save you the Long Distance toll and tell you that they will direct you right back to the CGN member/importer you may have already contacted.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Krieger = Single Point (Multi Pass) Cut rifled, hand lapped, cryo treated. ..... Gaillard = (Single Pass) Button Rifled, Lapped?, Treated?
Yes it will cost more for the Krieger simply because you are losing $0.20 on the dollar right off the bat plus the extra shipping fees (Has to go to the importer then the end buyer). Ian is not out to make a lot of money on the barrels he sells (I know this for a fact) and I have personally purchased 3 of them off him so far. The 2 that I have chambered so far shoot itsy bitsy, teenie weenie, signle polkadot groups.
I can save you the Long Distance toll and tell you that they will direct you right back to the CGN member/importer you may have already contacted.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Krieger = Single Point (Multi Pass) Cut rifled, hand lapped, cryo treated. ..... Gaillard = (Single Pass) Button Rifled, Lapped?, Treated?
Yes it will cost more for the Krieger simply because you are losing $0.20 on the dollar right off the bat plus the extra shipping fees (Has to go to the importer then the end buyer). Ian is not out to make a lot of money on the barrels he sells (I know this for a fact) and I have personally purchased 3 of them off him so far. The 2 that I have chambered so far shoot itsy bitsy, teenie weenie, signle polkadot groups.
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
You're comparing apples and oranges. Krieger = Single Point (Multi Pass) Cut rifled, hand lapped, cryo treated. ..... Gaillard = (Single Pass) Button Rifled, Lapped?, Treated?
Additionally a cut rifled barrel can have deeper grooves resulting in a barrel with a longer accuracy life.
Funny how every post where there is an inquiry about a product that MAY fall outside of a sponsor it creates a song and dance about how tough it is importing, we don't make any money, etc...
Hard to seperate fact from fiction when some sponsors seem to feel threatened and offended when it is discussed.
This gets old in a hurry.
Hard to seperate fact from fiction when some sponsors seem to feel threatened and offended when it is discussed.
This gets old in a hurry.
