I would like to purchase some lead bullets for 38 Special and 44 Special (Mag) for light loaded target loads. They will be used in double action Smith and Wesson revolvers. Are there "real" differences between the various brands we have access to in Canada? What I do find is that some of them create a lot of smoke, which some people say is caused from the lube? Some of the bullet manufactures recommend being not too hard, or not too soft??? Can some of the more knowledgeable reloaders help point me in the right direction?? Is there accuracy differences between them?
"Best" lead bullet for revolvers??
- Thread starter lyle1
- Start date
- Location
- West Quebec
I'd go for some 148g wadcutters for the 38, Campro or Berrys come to mind.. and they come in plated versions that cut down on the smoke..
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Magnum Guns Outfitters in Llyodminster sells 240 gr PB cast bullets in .429 diameter. A SWC design that I have been loading in 44 Specials and also used in my various 44 Magnum revolvers too:
-Colt SAA 44 Special
-S&W 624 44 Special
-S&W 629
-Colt Anaconda
-Dan Wesson Model 44
Zero complaints here.
-Colt SAA 44 Special
-S&W 624 44 Special
-S&W 629
-Colt Anaconda
-Dan Wesson Model 44
Zero complaints here.
The hardness of the alloy is related to how the bullets fit the bore and what pressures you're using.
If the bullet needs to obturate out to fit the bore and seal then a soft lead is desired. But if you're shooting a bullet which is sized to match the groove diameter or a thou or so bigger than the groove diameter then it ends up being swaged to fit as it passes into the barrel instead of having to obturate out to seal.
On the other hand in strong loads too soft a lead alloy can be forced against the bore strongly and despite the lube it can smear and gall which results in lead pickup. But too hard an alloy that isn't pushed with enough pressure instead of obturating out to fit can end up with gas blowby. And the hot gases passing by can melt off some small amount of the lead which deposits on the bore.
The good news is that it's not that hard to avoid either extreme and there's a wide range of acceptable fits and alloys that will seal well. It only seems to be when we're pushing to one extreme or the other that we can get issues.
For light target loads there's no doubt that the classic load is a lead 148gn HBWC pushed by around 2.8'ish grains of Bullseye. For indoor range use I'd be inclined to try the plated HBWC Campro or Berry bullets just to cut down on the flashed off lube and lead that comes off the guns when shooting any sort of cast lead projectile.
But fit is part of the issue. So I'd suggest you start out with 100 of the plated and 100 of the cast lead. Load 'em up and try them out. I've never tried the plated HBWC bullets but I know that between plated and cast regular bullets I've found that my guns shoot better with the cast lead compared to the plated or jacketed. But that's MY guns and with me shooting outdoors. I don't know what your situation is and what your guns will prefer. Being S&W's I will say that my own S&W's marginally prefer cast lead for regular round nose bullets. But as I say I've never tried the double ended or hollow backed plated wadcutters from anyone.
I do know that the local cowboy action group has shot many 10's of thousands of Bullet Barn bullets over the years with good results for accuracy and few, if any, cases of leading up. So I will suggest that a few boxes of their product in both sizes would be worth the cost. For the .38Spl I'd likely try the 148gn button ended wadcutter and the 158gn SWC. These will be servicable bullets for plinking at least even if you find that they don't work out for serious target shooting.
From Budget Shooter's I see that he's got a wide variety of options both in plated and cast HBWC and DEWC. I'd likely start off with bags of 100 of each and try them in batches of 20 to see what your gun likes. I'd then order up bulk amounts of what the gun prefers and keep what's left from the 100 round test bags for the next gun you get to see what it likes.
If the bullet needs to obturate out to fit the bore and seal then a soft lead is desired. But if you're shooting a bullet which is sized to match the groove diameter or a thou or so bigger than the groove diameter then it ends up being swaged to fit as it passes into the barrel instead of having to obturate out to seal.
On the other hand in strong loads too soft a lead alloy can be forced against the bore strongly and despite the lube it can smear and gall which results in lead pickup. But too hard an alloy that isn't pushed with enough pressure instead of obturating out to fit can end up with gas blowby. And the hot gases passing by can melt off some small amount of the lead which deposits on the bore.
The good news is that it's not that hard to avoid either extreme and there's a wide range of acceptable fits and alloys that will seal well. It only seems to be when we're pushing to one extreme or the other that we can get issues.
For light target loads there's no doubt that the classic load is a lead 148gn HBWC pushed by around 2.8'ish grains of Bullseye. For indoor range use I'd be inclined to try the plated HBWC Campro or Berry bullets just to cut down on the flashed off lube and lead that comes off the guns when shooting any sort of cast lead projectile.
But fit is part of the issue. So I'd suggest you start out with 100 of the plated and 100 of the cast lead. Load 'em up and try them out. I've never tried the plated HBWC bullets but I know that between plated and cast regular bullets I've found that my guns shoot better with the cast lead compared to the plated or jacketed. But that's MY guns and with me shooting outdoors. I don't know what your situation is and what your guns will prefer. Being S&W's I will say that my own S&W's marginally prefer cast lead for regular round nose bullets. But as I say I've never tried the double ended or hollow backed plated wadcutters from anyone.
I do know that the local cowboy action group has shot many 10's of thousands of Bullet Barn bullets over the years with good results for accuracy and few, if any, cases of leading up. So I will suggest that a few boxes of their product in both sizes would be worth the cost. For the .38Spl I'd likely try the 148gn button ended wadcutter and the 158gn SWC. These will be servicable bullets for plinking at least even if you find that they don't work out for serious target shooting.
From Budget Shooter's I see that he's got a wide variety of options both in plated and cast HBWC and DEWC. I'd likely start off with bags of 100 of each and try them in batches of 20 to see what your gun likes. I'd then order up bulk amounts of what the gun prefers and keep what's left from the 100 round test bags for the next gun you get to see what it likes.
The "real" differences between the various brands are mostly the price. Brand names cost more.
The classic .38 Special load is a lead 148gn HBWC or DEWC, either cast or swaged, using 2.5 to 2.8 of Bullseye(you must work up the load and loading .38 target loads in .357 cases works just fine). Swaged bullets are more accurate. Those are made out of soft lead wire and pressed to size.
Don't load .44 anything myself, but moderate Special loads in Mag cases will be as light as a .44 Mag will get. I'd be thinking 185 or 200 grain cast bullets with H or IMR4227.
The classic .38 Special load is a lead 148gn HBWC or DEWC, either cast or swaged, using 2.5 to 2.8 of Bullseye(you must work up the load and loading .38 target loads in .357 cases works just fine). Swaged bullets are more accurate. Those are made out of soft lead wire and pressed to size.
Don't load .44 anything myself, but moderate Special loads in Mag cases will be as light as a .44 Mag will get. I'd be thinking 185 or 200 grain cast bullets with H or IMR4227.
I use DWG (made here in Ontario) cast lead bullets. The lube on them is very smokey. Not an issue for me except when shooting in the dark by flashlight. Then I use plated bullets.
For 44 mag and Special I use 240 gr SWC. For 38 and 357 I use both the 148 solid wadcutter and the 158 SWC. I use these three because they are capable of excellent accuracy in a variety of guns.
I have found it best to shoot a variety of loads in each gun and to log the preferences. Each load (on the log book page for that gun) is evaluated for grouping ability. VVG, VG, G, F, P. A log page looks like this:
I recently surveyed the log and listed the guns and the various loads and noted the VVG and VG loads. Some loads worked in a lot of guns. Some only worked one or two guns.
My tubs of ammo are labeled with the guns that flavour of ammo works best in.
For 44 mag and Special I use 240 gr SWC. For 38 and 357 I use both the 148 solid wadcutter and the 158 SWC. I use these three because they are capable of excellent accuracy in a variety of guns.
I have found it best to shoot a variety of loads in each gun and to log the preferences. Each load (on the log book page for that gun) is evaluated for grouping ability. VVG, VG, G, F, P. A log page looks like this:
I recently surveyed the log and listed the guns and the various loads and noted the VVG and VG loads. Some loads worked in a lot of guns. Some only worked one or two guns.
My tubs of ammo are labeled with the guns that flavour of ammo works best in.
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Thank you to all who responded with their help and advice. Could anyone please elaborate about the accuracy "potential" between plated and cast/swaged lead bullets? Not that I am a proficient enough shooter to exploit the differences......
There is no potential between the bullets on their own. It's how each gun uses them. But I understand what you're asking.
I shot about 500 Speer HBWC's in front of Bullseye from my Model 19 S&W. The gun really did shoot well with them. But I never tried plated HBWC so I can't make a direct comparison. However I also find that the same gun shoots cast lead SWC to slightly tighter groups than I can get when shooting jacketed round nose bullets.
I also know that when shooting wax lubed cast bullets at an indoor range that there's a funny "sweet" taste in the back of my throat. The general understanding is that this is produced by a little lead in the air. Outdoors it's not an issue. But if I were shooting indoors a lot where the ventilation isn't all that great and I found I was getting that "taste" I'd sure want to try the plated wadcutters to get away from the possibility of adverse exposure.
I don't recall a big difference in accuracy between the HBWC's and cast lead SWC. But I did find that when I was on my game that the cast SWC did shoot a little better than jacketed round nose. I've never really tried the same comparison between plated and cast though.
I shot about 500 Speer HBWC's in front of Bullseye from my Model 19 S&W. The gun really did shoot well with them. But I never tried plated HBWC so I can't make a direct comparison. However I also find that the same gun shoots cast lead SWC to slightly tighter groups than I can get when shooting jacketed round nose bullets.
I also know that when shooting wax lubed cast bullets at an indoor range that there's a funny "sweet" taste in the back of my throat. The general understanding is that this is produced by a little lead in the air. Outdoors it's not an issue. But if I were shooting indoors a lot where the ventilation isn't all that great and I found I was getting that "taste" I'd sure want to try the plated wadcutters to get away from the possibility of adverse exposure.
I don't recall a big difference in accuracy between the HBWC's and cast lead SWC. But I did find that when I was on my game that the cast SWC did shoot a little better than jacketed round nose. I've never really tried the same comparison between plated and cast though.
