Best non restricted black rifle for 3 gun

punkrockboy said:
I have used an xcr, an sl8,a swiss arms, a mini 14. Now I have a Tavor. Compared to the Tavor, all of these other guns are FEEL a lot heavier and ARE much longer.
The Tavor is by far the easiest to carry, all of the weight is in the back, you can hold it to your shoulder one-handed all day. The accuracy is as good as any other black rifle I have owned. The trigger is not as good as an AR, and the ergonomics take some getting used to, but overall, I am glad I went with a Tavor.
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I own all the guns mentioned here with the exeption of the HK, IMHO the Swiss Arms is the clear winner for accuracy and reliability. I regularly shoot in the high 80's or low 90's at 300 meters with iron sights (Swiss A10 target). That said, the Tavor can shoot very well, especially with a trigger job and is very reliable as well. I have a few XCR's and have never experienced any problems with them. The XCR-M is highly accurate out to 650 meters with M118 loads (longest I have tested to date). I replaced the heavy barrels on my XCR's with light profiles and the weight and balance were greatly improved.

Just my 2 cents
 
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mini 14 in a more ergonomic stock? fairly light, shoots well, fast to clear stoppages (when they happen once in a blue moon like any semi rifle), simply #### the oprod back dump sideways let the handle go and pew pew pew.

the new ones are fairly accurate

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you could also go the CSA58 or VZ858, low initial investment to get into compared to other black rifles, and the ammo is dirt cheap and plentiful. most shoot decent groups even when screaming hot. They are crazy light weight. Lots of mags out there for cheap, lots of accesories and stock/optics options as well.

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smiley1 said:
Why not just get RPAL? Those Swiss arms are soooo heavy not really sure why anyone would want to use one for 3-gun anyways.
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Eat more bacon and rifle becomes lighter. It's science.

Haha just kidding, but don't buy an xcr smiley, I can almost guarantee you'll have problems with the barrel bolt coming loose! Haha last one I promise

To the op, I own an xcr so I'm biased as you can get but I have lot of experience With ar's and have finally had the opportunity to shoot the tavor. In all honestly if I had the money I would buy a tavor but If I had to pick one I would stick with my xcr. Fundamentally the same ergos as an AR (maybe better with ambi everything)

Also cz858 has that cool factor, it seems to make people mad when you out shoot them with Cheaper, older, and what they consider in their minds as a "inferior" rifle.
 
smiley1 said:
Why not just get RPAL? Those Swiss arms are soooo heavy not really sure why anyone would want to use one for 3-gun anyways.
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Its all relative to what you're used to carrying. Over the last few months I have carried an AIAW up in the mountains, when I took out my former Swiss last week (I sold it to a buddy;)) it felt like a toy gun. I even shot it one handed like a pistol just for fun (25 yards).

Also the whole prohib thing seems to be nothing but hot air, if they were going to do it it would have happened by now.
 
Just say it did go prohib. How would they find them all? And if you took it to the range and got pulled over would you get arrested? I'm new to this stuff.
 
00aught said:
Just say it did go prohib. How would they find them all? And if you took it to the range and got pulled over would you get arrested? I'm new to this stuff.
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Well realistically they couldn't find them, especially if you hid it and said you sold it if they did find out you had one. On the other hand yes if you were pulled over and caught with it you would be in possession of a prohibited firearm and would face hefty charges.
 
Watch the EE for an NR Bushmaster ACR. I bought one and it still amazes me how accurate it is. Even with Norc Ammo. Best purchase I've made. And if the guns too heavy. Go do some push ups
 
I'd look for a Swiss carbine re-barreled to 18.6" with and integral flash hider. The one I shot wasn't too heavy at all. It would make a great 3gun rifle. I've got a NR ACR and it is most definitely a laser.
 
I've run an XCR for a while now and don't believe the boogy man stories, is it as accurate as any other semi? For the most part, yes. Is it as accurate as a varmint AR? no. Does it fall apart when you look at it sideways? No. Are the ergos probably the best you can get, right out of the box? Most definately yes.
 
I have nearly 4000 rounds through my XCR. Only major issue I have had was a firing pin failure at ~3000 rounds. Wolverine had a replacement out to me in a couple of days. Never any issues with screws coming loose, I don't even have Loctite on my barrel bolt, just torqued to spec and call er good. Accuracy is about par for a semi.... 3-4 MOA with bulk loads, ~1.5 MOA with hand loaded match bullets.

The Tavor does look pretty interesting as well though... for me the choice would be between the xcr and the tavor. Hopefully someday I'll own both.
 
BeerBaron said:
I have nearly 4000 rounds through my XCR. Only major issue I have had was a firing pin failure at ~3000 rounds. Wolverine had a replacement out to me in a couple of days. Never any issues with screws coming loose, I don't even have Loctite on my barrel bolt, just torqued to spec and call er good. Accuracy is about par for a semi.... 3-4 MOA with bulk loads, ~1.5 MOA with hand loaded match bullets.

The Tavor does look pretty interesting as well though... for me the choice would be between the xcr and the tavor. Hopefully someday I'll own both.
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I have two shooting partners I shoot with regularly, both had firing pins on they're XCR's fail. One I know for a fact was somewhere around 3-4 thousand rounds. The other I'm not sure, but I think it was in that ball park as well.

One broke about 5 rounds into the session immediately after we had finished an advanced carbine course so it was a miracle the gun didn't go down on course. I watched it as it happened, the break caused the forward piece of the pin to remain jammed out of the bolt face and looked like it was begging to pierce a primer. Bottom line, that was the end of the day for the XCR. But Wolverine was very fast, he ordered 2 firing pin's and 3 days later was back up and running
 
Don't use a 1/4" Allen key to tighten the barrel on the XCR. Use a torque wrench, torque it to spec and you will not have issues. Get a newer XCR with all the updates. As for accuracy, if you feed it turds it'll shoot like crap. If you feed it good ammo it does pretty good for itself. Handloads will get it shooting quite well. If you're expecting match accuracy then why are you looking at a semi? Too much money laying around taking up space? If you're looking for a reliable semi that shoots well for a semi, has ergos as close as you're going to get to an AR, is fairly modular and has excellent support (Wolverine) then its a good option to look at. Or if you get your RPAL you can save a couple grand and just get the ideal 3 gun rifle... what's it called?
 
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