best shotgun for backwoods carry? small, light, cheap..

I was also wondering about how slugs worked with the different chokes. May I assume that, like with shot, you will get slightly greater accuracy at distance with the narrower chokes, or is that irrelevant for slugs?
 
it depends, on the ammo and the gun really.
with shotguns theres no rule - you just have to try different ammo, different chokes until you find the most accurate combo.

foster slugs are soft and have deep rifling that is intended to deform through any choke.
 
I got a DA Grizzly for bear protection while on moderately remote canoe trips. I like it because the mag tube comes right to the end and it will be nice for strapping to the side of my pack. I plan on sewing a long nylon sheath to the side of my pack and ill have one of the straps thats already on my pack to hold it tight. Its a bit over 30 inches and I would probably also rather have a pistol grip on it but apparently that's illegal. I also bought a shoulder strap for it which will be really nice.

Only thing about this setup is that with the ammo it will add close to 10lbs to my pack... I don't know if its reasonable to expect a lighter gun to be effective, but when you are hiking or portaging those pounds make a difference!

-Tyler
 
What ever you buy get your self a 100 round pack of winchester/federal cheepie bird shot for 28 bucks from crappy tire and shoot them up to be sure the gun works well. Then get slugs and see how and were they shoot at 25 yards. I would do this as a bare minimum before calling a gun good for defencive purposes.

I don't know if it is just coincidence but out of the 8 pump shot guns my friends and I have bought in the last 2 years (moss,rem,win) 6 of them had some kind of problem.
 
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narraway said:
go the easy way:
buy a can of bear spray for about $50, no hassle with the CFC, cops,....
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i am a cop so not worried about that. plus what's the hassle? what i'm doing/proposing is perfectly legal. and a lot more effective than bear spray.

we shouldn't stop doing things just cos someone might question it, if we do we will loose all our rights.

i am licensed to carry a shotgun, the laws allow carry in the back country, so i will.
 
Tyler582 said:
Its a bit over 30 inches and I would probably also rather have a pistol grip on it but apparently that's illegal. I also bought a shoulder strap for it which will be really nice.


-Tyler
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why is a pistol grip illegal? i was looking at 4 or 5 pistol grip shottys in WSS and can tire today..
 
a pistol grip is most certainly not illegal.
but, if installing one makes your shotgun's overall length drop to under 660mm (26") it may be.
my 12.5" barreled Grizzly with a shortened LOP stock is ~31". with a pistol grip it would be ~22" give or take.

the firearms act states that it may not be under 660mm overall length by "folding, telescoping, or otherwise".

many people theorize that that 'otherwise' implies by another mechanism similar to folding/telescoping, and that this does not include a fixed pistol grip - that a fixed pistol grip on a gun under 660mm is OK.
there are dozens of threads on this all over CGN.

im not going to argue either way, but neither am i going to take the risk myself. ill wait until either there is a clear definition of what is restricted/unrestricted and what that 'otherwise' means, or until someone actually ends up in court over it and sets a precedent. i dont have the time nor money to become a guinea-pig for Canadian gun laws.
 
manbearpig said:
a pistol grip is most certainly not illegal.
but, if installing one makes your shotgun's overall length drop to under 660mm (26") it may be.
my 12.5" barreled Grizzly with a shortened LOP stock is ~31". with a pistol grip it would be ~22" give or take.

the firearms act states that it may not be under 660mm overall length by "folding, telescoping, or otherwise".

many people theorize that that 'otherwise' implies by another mechanism similar to folding/telescoping, and that this does not include a fixed pistol grip - that a fixed pistol grip on a gun under 660mm is OK.
there are dozens of threads on this all over CGN.

im not going to argue either way, but neither am i going to take the risk myself. ill wait until either there is a clear definition of what is restricted/unrestricted and what that 'otherwise' means, or until someone actually ends up in court over it and sets a precedent. i dont have the time nor money to become a guinea-pig for Canadian gun laws.
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well get a pistol grip with a stock. best of both worlds.

anyway, back on topic, any got any answers to my previous posts about the police synthetic etc..?
 
bah, i really dont like pistol gripped stocks.

and no clue on the 870P new prices. youd have to call and ask places like P&D Enterprise and see if they can order one for you. keep an eye on the EE as well they show up there frequently.

i imagine itll cost you nearly twice as much as an Express. you mentioned you wanted one for the extra durability -- i doubt youll wear out even an 870 express in your lifetime, heh. the main differences between the P and Express is the better finish, smoother cycling and alloy trigger housing/guard on the P. you could just get an Express, shoot a couple hundred cheap shells through it to make sure it cycles reliably, smooth it out a bit and get familiarized with it.
 
manbearpig said:
bah, i really dont like pistol gripped stocks.

and no clue on the 870P new prices. youd have to call and ask places like P&D Enterprise and see if they can order one for you. keep an eye on the EE as well they show up there frequently.

i imagine itll cost you nearly twice as much as an Express. you mentioned you wanted one for the extra durability -- i doubt youll wear out even an 870 express in your lifetime, heh. the main differences between the P and Express is the better finish, smoother cycling and alloy trigger housing/guard on the P. you could just get an Express, shoot a couple hundred cheap shells through it to make sure it cycles reliably, smooth it out a bit and get familiarized with it.
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hmm, maybe you are right. it was more the weather proofness of the police that appealed.

can something like these http://www.officerstore.com/store/product.cfm/pid_6355_ameriglo_tritium_night_sights_for_remington/
be fitted easily to the 870 express synthetic.
 
crunchiespg said:
basically something i could strap to the outside of my pack and forget about it until such time i would need it.
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That's how I thought to carry them, until I was bushwhacking around last summer and nearly tripped over a black bear. Man, I wished I had something in my hands right then.

I have an HP9 now, but I think i'm going to replace it with a Fabarm Martial and a separate hunting gun.
 
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if you want weather proofness get a marine magnum. everything else is susceptible to rust to varying degrees.

its a beater carrying shotgun though -- even if the Express gets a touch of surface rust on it just wipe it off gently with some extra-fine steel wool w/gun oil, its no big deal. if youre actually intending to carry this around all the time while hiking its going to get beaten up anyway.

im sure the tactical crowd can give you advice on what sights to install and refer you to someone to install them. i actually like simple beads.

and yeah what northern skies said - strapped to a bag is useless. with 870s you have a lot of sling mounting options with the aftermarket sling plates.
 
HP9-1. It's wearing a Knoxx Specops recoil reducing stock and a Surefire forend these days.

It's a very reliable shotgun.

HP9forendstrap.jpg
 
manbearpig said:
if you want weather proofness get a marine magnum. everything else is susceptible to rust to varying degrees.

its a beater carrying shotgun though -- even if the Express gets a touch of surface rust on it just wipe it off gently with some extra-fine steel wool w/gun oil, its no big deal. if youre actually intending to carry this around all the time while hiking its going to get beaten up anyway.

im sure the tactical crowd can give you advice on what sights to install and refer you to someone to install them. i actually like simple beads.

and yeah what northern skies said - strapped to a bag is useless. with 870s you have a lot of sling mounting options with the aftermarket sling plates.
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well when i say strapped to my bag, i mean in a loop tucked into a open elasticated side pocket, so it would be able to be grabbed and slipped out in no time at all.
yeh it will get beaten up, not worried aobut that, but i do want it to be reliable whatever the weather.
 
crunchiespg said:
well when i say strapped to my bag, i mean in a loop tucked into a open elasticated side pocket, so it would be able to be grabbed and slipped out in no time at all.
yeh it will get beaten up, not worried aobut that, but i do want it to be reliable whatever the weather.
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it would take very long-term neglect for an 870 not to function.
as long as youre cleaning it now and then and oiling it you needn't worry about actual function.
the matte blued finish on the 870 Express is a rust-magnet, but its just fine surface rust - purely cosmetic.

you could always get an 870 Express parkerized and/or gunkoted later down the road. thats one plus to the steel receiver on the 870 - you can finish it however you like, unlike shotguns with an aluminum receiver where your options are very limited.
 
I've read through these posts and wondered if there was anything I could say that would contribute to the information already gathered. I'm not sure, but I'll try.

Right out of the gate I found the question a bit disturbing, because you say that you want a cheap gun for protection in the back country. Cheap is a subjective word, but to my mind it means junk. Junk tends to be unreliable, and perhaps even dangerous to use; so why would a man want to to waste his money on junk when for just a little bit more he could have a tool that would provide him with not only pride of ownership but also with durability, reliability and real security? Isn't this the gun that you intend to stake your life on? Perhaps the word you were looking for was value. Many of the posters must of read it that way in that their suggestions for the most part are not for cheap guns.

For several years I packed around a cut down 12 gauge single shot equipped with rifle sights. This was not for the consideration of cost, (which was surprisingly high by the time I got the little gun to where I wanted it) but it was light and handy to pack around in difficult country. It proved to be less than ideal when I actually found myself in a dangerous bear situation and grudgingly I got a pump to tide me over until I could get a suitable rifle. (I had lost all of my guns in a house fire) In the time that passed before my rifle was completed, I had carried the shotgun hundreds of miles on my back, and had 3 dangerous bear encounters that were resolved without blood. That gun is a real confidence booster. I find it is more useful close to town than is the rifle, and in one situation that occurred in pitch darkness I would not of traded it for the rifle.

The process leading up to my decision of which pump to choose was somewhat convoluted, but I began with the premise that I wanted an absolutely reliable, conventional butt stock, allowances for a sling, 18"-22" barrel, rifle sights, a tough finish, and a slick action. I had every intention of getting a Remington 870 Marine Magnum until I began to wonder if it was in fact the best choice.

Mossberg was in the midst of advertising their milspec 590 so I took a look at this to see why the military would prefer a Mossy to the snazzy Remington. What I found was the gun that met all of my requirements. It's parkerized finish was resilient to the elements, and would shrug off scratches. The winged ghost ring was the perfect rear sight, too bad they didn't wing the front sight as well, and I did end up bending my front sight. Most importantly, you can swap out any part without sending the gun to a gunsmith. Try to replace the ejector on an 870, that's right you can't without specialized tools, but on the 590 all you need is a screw driver to complete the task. The action after a short break in period is slick enough that when the gun is held muzzle up, unloaded and cocked, the slide drops back under it's own weight when the release is pressed.

The temptation is to take the opportunity to save a few dollars by getting the Maverick 88 instead of the 590 and those who are promoters of this idea point out that after all, it is the same action . A fellow I work with came to this conclusion, but when you put the two guns together, the differences are astonishing. A big consideration is that the Maverick has a seald magazine like the Mossy 500's. I've never been a fan of that arrangement as there seems to be no suitable way to clean the inside of the magazine tube. Where my 590 is slick, the Maverick is rough and requires a great deal more effort to work the action. I want to say that the Maverick has a single action bar, but I don't remember if this is in fact the case. I just know that operating the gun was much more difficult that was my 590. The Maverick has a cross bolt safety rather than a tang safety, but this is of little importance beyond personal preference. The barrel of the Maverick is blued, and blueing is less resilient than parkerizing, nickel, or stainless.

Another fellow at work bought the Marine Coat 500 with both the pistol grip and the conventional butt stock and the short barrel with a bead. His action was also much better than the Maverick's, but again the 500 has a sealed magazine. His first problem was that fired shells failed to eject, and the gun had to be sent out for warranty. Upon return he had no further issues with reliability. He tried to shoot slugs with the pistol grip once, he then promptly and properly threw that away as recoil was unpleasant, and the ability to shoot accurately was all but impossible. This fellow by the way is a big boy, about 6'8" and he is not easily intimidated.

A common failing of all of the Mossberg guns equipped with synthetic stocks is that the length of pull is too long for most people. With plastic furniture this is not as simple a fix as it would be with a wood stock. I've never bothered to cut mine down as I have a speed feed stock and do not wish to loose the usefulness of that feature. Probably I would be better of with the gun fitting properly as it carries lots of ammo even without the speed feed feature, what with the long magazine and a Side Saddle. Undoubtedly it costs me some time when I need to shoulder the piece quickly. The stock length of the 500 and the Maverick seem to be even longer, and the guns must be pushed well out in front before they can be brought back to the shoulder. Add to this bulky outdoor clothing and the situation does not improve.

My suggestion therefore, is to get a Mossberg 590 and have the length of pull addressed should it need to be. A side saddle is useful, although the additional ammunition does add weight to the gun. An advantage of the Side Saddle, beyond the additional rounds, is that it replaces the trigger group retaining pin with a hex head screw. A word about the speed feed stock should you go that route is that the springs behind the plungers are right against the rubber of the recoil pad. I did not care for this as the back side of the pad was becoming damaged, so I found a thin piece of stainless steel and used that as a backing to protect the pad. I wrap electrical tape around the gap between the butt and the pad and this keeps out moisture and debris. The 590's sling swivel arrangement is very good, but I found it useful to Lock-Tite in the front swivel to prevent it from turning. When you purchase your gun (what ever that gun ends up being) ensure 100% reliability before you decide to stake your life on it. If it fails to feed, fails to eject, or fails to fire, it is not suitable for the task you intend to use it for.
 
Boomer said:
A fellow I work with came to this conclusion, but when you put the two guns together, the differences are astonishing. A big consideration is that the Maverick has a seald magazine like the Mossy 500's. I've never been a fan of that arrangement as there seems to be no suitable way to clean the inside of the magazine tube. Where my 590 is slick, the Maverick is rough and requires a great deal more effort to work the action. I want to say that the Maverick has a single action bar, but I don't remember if this is in fact the case.
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the very old Mossbergs had a single action bar design, and then after Mossberg switched to dual action bars the Maverick was the old single action bar design. nowadays they both have dual action bars, and dual extractors. the main difference is safety location (tang safety on Mossberg, 870-like safety on Maverick), and the Mossberg is smoother because the action bars are not soldered to the forend tube and therefore allow for some play, which reduces binding. the forend tube/action bars on the Maverick are one-piece.

my magazine, although 'sealed' at the end, had the hole for the thread on the end cap. a simple way of cleaning the mag tube is to remove the barrel, unscrew the mag tube. take a half paper towel wadded into a solid plug which you can coat with your cleaning solvent, oil, whatever - and push that all the way into the mag tube until it stops at the plugged end. you can push it back out of the mag tube with a standard size cleaning rod through the endcap hole, it fits perfectly.

if you get a Mossberg id recommend replacing the mag follower with a plastic hi-vis one, theyre only $5-10 or so. my friend's was poorly maintained and he stored it with some moisture in the tube, and the thin metal follower rusted to the end of the mag tube :runaway:

TBH i dont see the appeal of the Mavericks when for another $50 you can get a Mossberg 500 with a smoother action and better safety location.
 
Boomer, I also have a 590, I chose it for some of the same reasons you mention. However the two 88's that I have used cycle just as well as my 590. Both of them shoot slugs more accurately as well. OF the 3 590's we have all of them had sticky ejection and all came with the crappy front bead that comes off. Perhaps they are not built quite as well as they once were.

On pistol grips, obviously they are not nearly as good as a stock, even a folder, but I have shot a few slugs and lots of bird shot at clays and find them to actually be more usable than people first belive.




The best thing about choosing a shotgun for defencive purposes is that you can go out and buy a flat of 250 bird shot for 65 bucks. Then shoot clay pigeons with your buddies. It's great cheap practice at moving targets. You will become proficient with the gun in no time.
 
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