best shotgun for backwoods carry? small, light, cheap..

[novan3]

For fans of the suppressed shotgun in No Country For Old Men, Mossberg's new offering is sure to excite. SIR has them in their new catalogue for not a whole lot over 300.

 

[AlderTK]

yeah but it's not a reall suppressor

w can't have them here but i'd take an improved feed reliability Siaga 12 ig i could up to 3 inch shells and can they're are after market 20 round mags load slugs buck slug buck slug buck or heck all 3 inch buck thats 12 x 20 240 peaices of 00 buck shoot if you miss with all those you should not own fire arms

why do AK's and high caps have to be illigal

 

[crunchiespg]

I've read through these posts and wondered if there was anything I could say that would contribute to the information already gathered. I'm not sure, but I'll try.

Right out of the gate I found the question a bit disturbing, because you say that you want a cheap gun for protection in the back country. Cheap is a subjective word, but to my mind it means junk. Junk tends to be unreliable, and perhaps even dangerous to use; so why would a man want to to waste his money on junk when for just a little bit more he could have a tool that would provide him with not only pride of ownership but also with durability, reliability and real security? Isn't this the gun that you intend to stake your life on? Perhaps the word you were looking for was value. Many of the posters must of read it that way in that their suggestions for the most part are not for cheap guns.

For several years I packed around a cut down 12 gauge single shot equipped with rifle sights. This was not for the consideration of cost, (which was surprisingly high by the time I got the little gun to where I wanted it) but it was light and handy to pack around in difficult country. It proved to be less than ideal when I actually found myself in a dangerous bear situation and grudgingly I got a pump to tide me over until I could get a suitable rifle. (I had lost all of my guns in a house fire) In the time that passed before my rifle was completed, I had carried the shotgun hundreds of miles on my back, and had 3 dangerous bear encounters that were resolved without blood. That gun is a real confidence booster. I find it is more useful close to town than is the rifle, and in one situation that occurred in pitch darkness I would not of traded it for the rifle.

The process leading up to my decision of which pump to choose was somewhat convoluted, but I began with the premise that I wanted an absolutely reliable, conventional butt stock, allowances for a sling, 18"-22" barrel, rifle sights, a tough finish, and a slick action. I had every intention of getting a Remington 870 Marine Magnum until I began to wonder if it was in fact the best choice.

Mossberg was in the midst of advertising their milspec 590 so I took a look at this to see why the military would prefer a Mossy to the snazzy Remington. What I found was the gun that met all of my requirements. It's parkerized finish was resilient to the elements, and would shrug off scratches. The winged ghost ring was the perfect rear sight, too bad they didn't wing the front sight as well, and I did end up bending my front sight. Most importantly, you can swap out any part without sending the gun to a gunsmith. Try to replace the ejector on an 870, that's right you can't without specialized tools, but on the 590 all you need is a screw driver to complete the task. The action after a short break in period is slick enough that when the gun is held muzzle up, unloaded and cocked, the slide drops back under it's own weight when the release is pressed.

The temptation is to take the opportunity to save a few dollars by getting the Maverick 88 instead of the 590 and those who are promoters of this idea point out that after all, it is the same action . A fellow I work with came to this conclusion, but when you put the two guns together, the differences are astonishing. A big consideration is that the Maverick has a seald magazine like the Mossy 500's. I've never been a fan of that arrangement as there seems to be no suitable way to clean the inside of the magazine tube. Where my 590 is slick, the Maverick is rough and requires a great deal more effort to work the action. I want to say that the Maverick has a single action bar, but I don't remember if this is in fact the case. I just know that operating the gun was much more difficult that was my 590. The Maverick has a cross bolt safety rather than a tang safety, but this is of little importance beyond personal preference. The barrel of the Maverick is blued, and blueing is less resilient than parkerizing, nickel, or stainless.

Another fellow at work bought the Marine Coat 500 with both the pistol grip and the conventional butt stock and the short barrel with a bead. His action was also much better than the Maverick's, but again the 500 has a sealed magazine. His first problem was that fired shells failed to eject, and the gun had to be sent out for warranty. Upon return he had no further issues with reliability. He tried to shoot slugs with the pistol grip once, he then promptly and properly threw that away as recoil was unpleasant, and the ability to shoot accurately was all but impossible. This fellow by the way is a big boy, about 6'8" and he is not easily intimidated.

A common failing of all of the Mossberg guns equipped with synthetic stocks is that the length of pull is too long for most people. With plastic furniture this is not as simple a fix as it would be with a wood stock. I've never bothered to cut mine down as I have a speed feed stock and do not wish to loose the usefulness of that feature. Probably I would be better of with the gun fitting properly as it carries lots of ammo even without the speed feed feature, what with the long magazine and a Side Saddle. Undoubtedly it costs me some time when I need to shoulder the piece quickly. The stock length of the 500 and the Maverick seem to be even longer, and the guns must be pushed well out in front before they can be brought back to the shoulder. Add to this bulky outdoor clothing and the situation does not improve.

My suggestion therefore, is to get a Mossberg 590 and have the length of pull addressed should it need to be. A side saddle is useful, although the additional ammunition does add weight to the gun. An advantage of the Side Saddle, beyond the additional rounds, is that it replaces the trigger group retaining pin with a hex head screw. A word about the speed feed stock should you go that route is that the springs behind the plungers are right against the rubber of the recoil pad. I did not care for this as the back side of the pad was becoming damaged, so I found a thin piece of stainless steel and used that as a backing to protect the pad. I wrap electrical tape around the gap between the butt and the pad and this keeps out moisture and debris. The 590's sling swivel arrangement is very good, but I found it useful to Lock-Tite in the front swivel to prevent it from turning. When you purchase your gun (what ever that gun ends up being) ensure 100% reliability before you decide to stake your life on it. If it fails to feed, fails to eject, or fails to fire, it is not suitable for the task you intend to use it for.

yes good value is what i meant. basically i didnt want to spend $2000 on something that a $500 would do just as well. ill have a look at the ones you suggested. thank you.

 

[manbearpig]

if you want a good value, pick up a DA grizzly, buy 1-2 bulk packs of promo ammo at Walmart or CTC and go shoot them until the action smooths up and you verify function. buy a $30 MI shotgun endplate sling adaptor from Brownells and a decent sling, and off you go.

i own or have owned the Mossy 500s, Remington 870 Wingmaster/Police (never owned an Express or MM though), Benellis, and DA Grizzly and by far the Grizzly is the best 'out of the box value'. if anything it is overengineered: its heavier and everything seems a few thou beefier than the 870s.

I have an old Wingmaster that i converted from 2 3/4" to 3", with a 3" 18" barrel (and a Hogue short LOP stock on order for it), and yes it is smoother, lighter and nicer looking but in the end it costs twice as much and is no more or less reliable. a bear, zombie or yeti isnt going to care if your shotgun has Wingmaster, Police, Express or Grizzly on the side, or how shiny it is - the key is it functions totally reliably
the 12.5" barrel is as compact you can go without altering the function/capacity of the 870 like shorter barrels would.

 

[7mmager]

go the easy way:
buy a can of bear spray for about $50, no hassle with the CFC, cops,....

You may reconsider this logic if you have ever hiked in southern alberta bear county with the normal gale coming off the eastern slopes.

As long as you can manouver so the bear is directly down wind your fine, otherwise the bear spray idea in a typical southern alberta wind is kind of like peeing into it...

 

[Bilirubin]

...except pee doesn't send you into convulsions if you get it in your face.

Er, so I've heard.

 

[762shooter]

You can get a used Ithaca M37 pretty cheap...but not, any add on magazine extension available. So for extra rounds, in the magazine, one must look for the 7 shot M&P Model.
They are very light for an all steel receiver shotgun though.
Bottom feed, bottom eject. The Deerslayer variant comes with good iron, rifle type sights. Not many add ons out there though. But in actual fact, the only extra thing one really needs, is possibly a flashlight mount.
Got to look a little extra, for a folding stock too....

And for added enjoyment, there is no disconnecter in the trigger group so you can hold the trigger down and fire rapidly by slamming the forend home!

 

[hiredgun]

For hiking and my boat (flare gun required), I simply sawed down the barrel of a Cooey single shot 12 guage to 18.5", added swivels, recoil pad and iron sights. My advice would be to forget the sights (cost more than the gun). I recognize that all of the other suggestions are better, but "Perfection is the enemy of good enough".

 

[Brutus]

And for added enjoyment, there is no disconnecter in the trigger group so you can hold the trigger down and fire rapidly by slamming the forend home!

Yes 762shooter, I neglected to mention this because I have some Model 37's that do fire this way , and I have newer Model 87's that do not have this quick fire feature.
To add to this confusion I have one M37 that does not "slam fire!"

Want some more conflicting data? Due to an accidental fatal shooting of a LAPD Officer, that department specified, NO slam fire feature on thier issue shotguns...However some other police departments continued to have factory access to shotguns with the slam fire feature!

Although in a bad encounter close up, this may give the happy woods wanderer an extra edge in the speedy delivery of repeat shots.....
At a distance, purposely lobbing slugs at a still target, this will not usually give any advantage.

 

[1shotdown]

Mossberg 500 or Remington 870

 

[sherlockbonez]

Where are you guys finding new M37s? I'm looking at getting a 20g.

 

[ipscgraz]

also on the 870 models does the safety come on automatically when a shell is chambered? ie could i carry it with 4 in the tube but empty chamber, pump it and then fire? or would i need to pump it, then release safety then fire? as for obvious reasons id rather keep it without a round in the chamber whilst on my back, but due to the safety position i wouldnt want to be having to delay after loading the shotty especially seeing as you have to use the trigger finger to take off the safety. basically i want it to be ready to fire ASAP when its needed.

One of the biggest things I have seen confuse people with shotguns is that you have to have the hammer down or use the action release to cycle a round into the chamber.

I have seen so many people tugging on the forestock wondering why they couldn't load at first.

If I was carrying for emergencies, hammer down on an empty chamber is quicker than fumbling with trigger safety.

 

[dreamwaters]

870 Marine Magnum seems a good choice. This is how I sleep in bear country...
I plan to add a folding stock though to make it more compact for strapping to my pack etc...
-DW

 

[RayHill]

you can't put a folding stock on one of the grizzly 870 shotguns not legal it has to be used with the stock or stocks it was sold with that is why the are able to sell the short barrel.

 

[jethunter]

For bear protection, you can fill a tube mag as far as it goes. From my experience though, it's mighty rough shooting bear loads accurately / precisely with a pistol grip...I seriously recommend a shoulder stock. (if you're familiar with folders, and can rig one to your pack without it catching, might fit your interest?) No shot, slugs only. My personal preference is the Remington 870 variety, which is what I carry for my forestry work. I have heard that the more recent production years have been manufactured to lower tolerances, so it might merit looking into a nice used one here on the EE for a few hundred dollars? Definitely hearsay, but the rumor is widespread.

Winchester pumps are lighter w/ aluminum receiver, but from my experience, not mechanically as reliable. The 1200 and 1300's simply have more to go wrong, as compared to 870's, with their rotating bolt system. Also more picky with different ammo.

Buddy swears by his mossberg / mavericks. The Maverick security 88 is mighty cheap and hasn't failed him yet. I haven't torn one apart, so can't personally attest to their mechanics though.

I recommend getting the 18" variety. 8' and 12" are technically legal on paper and would pass in court, but their legality might be difficult to explain to a conservation officer or whatnot. If you're using it in the bush often enough, it might not be worth the hassle. Besides, the 18" barrel would allow for a tube extension as well, LOT softer on the ears, easier muzzle control, etc.

Then again, them short barrels are pretty sweet

I'm interested to hear what ammo didn't go "bang" in your experience with the winchester pumps?

I will agree with the 18" barrel and full stock. Pistol grip on a 12 gauge shotgun is a toy.

 

[diananike]

you can't put a folding stock on one of the grizzly 870 shotguns not legal it has to be used with the stock or stocks it was sold with that is why the are able to sell the short barrel.

If you put a Knoxx Specops collapsible on a Grizzly it makes it pretty compact.

Or you can use the Specops folder and just screw someting an inch long like a sling swivel to the rear of the pistol grip and it will push it past 26" and into legality.

 

[Brutus]

Where are you guys finding new M37s? I'm looking at getting a 20g.

Of my 5 used, but good condition Ithaca M37's, all excluding one, I purchased here on the EE forum.
Three of them look NIB, & one very well used, but parkerized finish.
My 20 gauge, is my only blued variant, with honest carry marks on the finish.

Good luck to you friend...